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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Somewhere between Iraq and a hard place
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    11,777
    Quote Originally Posted by Witty_Banter View Post
    Too late lads, they've been doing that for years - may I present....the MPGS...the Armed Forces version of G4S (who are equally, if not even more useless)


    p01lz1hw.jpg

  2. Quote Originally Posted by Witty_Banter View Post
    It's good to see that someone so near the top has identified that they've royally fecked up, but I don't think that's their primary concern. There's certainly an argument for allowing entry to people who aren't physically fit or healthy enough and then training them up to the standard (like we used to before phys became such a high priority).

    But I think they also need to recognise that there just isn't enough drive in most 18-35 year olds to push them toward military service. They've not been exposed to major global conflict like previous generations, where WW2 and the Cold War were relatively fresh in our history. In context, their exposure has been to our conflicts in distant dusty places that seemed to fill no defensive purpose. The 'war on terror' is completely different, in that it's been brought home on more than one occasion, but there's a definitive disconnect between the military and home grown terrorism - we've not deployed to sort that out, it's the job of the police or MI5.

    Combine this with our current crop of oh-so-easily-offendable-snowflakes, and there's not many left who could be deemed as 'soldier material'. I think that (regardless of physical gender), soldiering has always required a certain element of masculinity - and we've managed to breed that out of our newest generations, in favour of a more metrosexual / hormone-neutral approach. I'm not trying to be sexist, I'm talking more of a psychological masculine / femenine rather than physical gender.

    the MOD has spent the last decade chopping off any perks associated to military service, and cutting manpower because it 'wasn't needed'. All of this has been clearly visible to the public, so what's the incentive to join (or more specifically, to join and stay)?
    I agree. From the quote mentioned it would mean that half of 17-35 year olds are fit enough to pass the tests. But why join nowadays when it's better money being an electrician and equal chance of travel in some cases.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    On my own little planet
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    1,658
    Quote Originally Posted by Highflyer View Post
    I agree. From the quote mentioned it would mean that half of 17-35 year olds are fit enough to pass the tests. But why join nowadays when it's better money being an electrician and equal chance of travel in some cases.
    A fair point. There's also been quite a drive in the last few years - in no small part thanks to uni fees etc - for kids to look for a trade qualification / apprenticeship rather than go down the degree and corresponding massive debt route. A big problem with the military service 'offer' is that it demands far more than it actually offers.

    If someone isn't too bright in school but manages to scrape 3 GSCEs at grade C (or whatever the numerical variant is now), then they could possibly get in to the RAF ground trades and maybe reach Cpl / Sgt within 10 years, with much slog and brown nosing. They'll have to put up with lord knows how much drivel from the Ruperts and Airships, deployments, accommodation issues, pay rises being ignored, and so on, and then if they leave at the 10 year point they'll get little or no pension.

    OR..

    With the same qualifications they could opt for an apprenticeship on leaving school, learn a trade and could land a well paid position in a company or even be running their own small business in 10 years, earning significantly more.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Anywhere that they will put up with me
    Posts
    509
    Why has such great emphasis been placed on physical fitness? I remember fitness testing being inflicted upon us from about the early 90s, how on earth did we cope before that? Many of my era had done the BBQ tours, Sharjah, Masirah, Salalah, etc, the only cold place we went to was Goose Bay. We all survived and worked in those extremes of temperature, doing the job to the satisfaction of our masters. Apart from the sports billys, that we all covered for, most folk just had a casual kickabout with a football, or if you were a fireman, lobbed a volleyball around. A few of the Rocks, mainly those seeking employment in a different coloured beret were fanatical with regard to fitness, however, that was a means to an end. The remainder of us cracked on with the task at hand.


    It was accepted that if you could do your job, which included guards and sentries, you were fit. The ability to run at speed is dictated by which end of the rifle you are stood at, and I am pretty confident that I could run quickly enough if I was stood at the wrong end. As I understand it, a fitness test fail, or any sort of downgrading, is a get out of jail free card when it comes to dets. Wherever I served overseas we had folk carrying injuries, some incurred in theatre, and most of them minor, which did not impede their ability to carry out their duties.


    So, why do the current crop of lords and masters feel the need to beat their gums regarding fitness standards?

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Conisbrough, South Yorkshire
    Posts
    3,339
    Quote Originally Posted by dkh51250 View Post
    Why has such great emphasis been placed on physical fitness? I remember fitness testing being inflicted upon us from about the early 90s, how on earth did we cope before that? Many of my era had done the BBQ tours, Sharjah, Masirah, Salalah, etc, the only cold place we went to was Goose Bay. We all survived and worked in those extremes of temperature, doing the job to the satisfaction of our masters. Apart from the sports billys, that we all covered for, most folk just had a casual kickabout with a football, or if you were a fireman, lobbed a volleyball around. A few of the Rocks, mainly those seeking employment in a different coloured beret were fanatical with regard to fitness, however, that was a means to an end. The remainder of us cracked on with the task at hand.


    It was accepted that if you could do your job, which included guards and sentries, you were fit. The ability to run at speed is dictated by which end of the rifle you are stood at, and I am pretty confident that I could run quickly enough if I was stood at the wrong end. As I understand it, a fitness test fail, or any sort of downgrading, is a get out of jail free card when it comes to dets. Wherever I served overseas we had folk carrying injuries, some incurred in theatre, and most of them minor, which did not impede their ability to carry out their duties.


    So, why do the current crop of lords and masters feel the need to beat their gums regarding fitness standards?
    Because when they invent something that is relevant to the task or not they get noticed and once they have been noticed they need to stay on the radar by getting ticks in the boxes and monthly reports highlighting the fact that all is well.

    All that with the aim of a big fat pension and possibly a knighthood.
    It's not the man in the fight - it's the fight in the man.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    On my own little planet
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    1,658
    Quote Originally Posted by dkh51250 View Post
    As I understand it, a fitness test fail, or any sort of downgrading, is a get out of jail free card when it comes to dets.
    Not so mate - well, not for all of us, by and large it depends on your trade and where your deployments are. I've been a permanent downgrade for several years (osteoarthritis), but I was on det in 2016 and I'll be going again in 2019. It does limit where I'm allowed to go (ie I can't go anywhere 'fun'), but I still go. Only those with a severely twisted sock have a GOJF card, and even then, there's a very small number of UK deployments they can be used for. Medically Non-Deployable (MND) pers can also, I believe, be deployed to other UK units to cover for someone who's on det somewhere warmer.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East of England
    Posts
    515
    Quote Originally Posted by dkh51250 View Post
    Why has such great emphasis been placed on physical fitness? I remember fitness testing being inflicted upon us from about the early 90s, how on earth did we cope before that? Many of my era had done the BBQ tours, Sharjah, Masirah, Salalah, etc, the only cold place we went to was Goose Bay. We all survived and worked in those extremes of temperature, doing the job to the satisfaction of our masters. Apart from the sports billys, that we all covered for, most folk just had a casual kickabout with a football, or if you were a fireman, lobbed a volleyball around. A few of the Rocks, mainly those seeking employment in a different coloured beret were fanatical with regard to fitness, however, that was a means to an end. The remainder of us cracked on with the task at hand.


    It was accepted that if you could do your job, which included guards and sentries, you were fit. The ability to run at speed is dictated by which end of the rifle you are stood at, and I am pretty confident that I could run quickly enough if I was stood at the wrong end. As I understand it, a fitness test fail, or any sort of downgrading, is a get out of jail free card when it comes to dets. Wherever I served overseas we had folk carrying injuries, some incurred in theatre, and most of them minor, which did not impede their ability to carry out their duties.


    So, why do the current crop of lords and masters feel the need to beat their gums regarding fitness standards?
    It was before the 90's; I can remember having to do a 1 1/2 mile run at Locking in the 80's. I could do it but there were some who couldn't and I recall hearing tales that one individual had had a heart attack (and died?) doing it.

    Those levels of fitness were probably unsustainable for an organisation that had seen the hard way the issues that a lack of fitness could produce during Op Corporate. The question really is, what levels of fitness are really required for some roles - does a TG1 FS on a fast jet squadron need the same levels as, say, a Cpl on a Puma Squadron? Should fitness levels be related to roles rather than just age?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Anywhere that they will put up with me
    Posts
    509
    Thanks for the update WB, and sorry to hear of your ailment. Oldstacker, I do recall hearing of an individual passing away at Hereford, whilst undergoing GST 2. However, in the main, my personal experience was that folk were fit enough to do the job. Op Burberry gave extended shifts, and the need to be fit, Op Corporate showed that the skinny gits, as I was back then, did not fare as well as their chubbier friends, making a total mockery of height to weight ratio.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    On my own little planet
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    1,658
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldstacker View Post
    It was before the 90's; I can remember having to do a 1 1/2 mile run at Locking in the 80's. I could do it but there were some who couldn't and I recall hearing tales that one individual had had a heart attack (and died?) doing it.
    I've known quite a few people kick the proverbial bucket during forced phys / station PT in the last couple of years. Not unfit people, either. Usually they put it down to poor lifestyle choices (ie they drank too much the night before, weren't hydrated enough, etc). Also been a couple that have died from heatstroke on mando PT, which is partially why there's such a big thing about acclimatisation on det these days (didn't have any acclimatisation training on / for Herrick!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldstacker View Post
    The question really is, what levels of fitness are really required for some roles - does a TG1 FS on a fast jet squadron need the same levels as, say, a Cpl on a Puma Squadron? Should fitness levels be related to roles rather than just age?
    It's an interesting question, because the job shapes your fitness far more than your fitness shapes your ability to do your job. For example, I have duff joints and my eyes are starting to go, because I've spent almost 2 decades sat behind a desk staring at computer screens (even on deployment). My job is extremely sedentary, but even in my broken state I can do a large proportion of the roles within my trade because they all involve being sat on my fat arse behind a desk. Could easily civilianise most of my jobs!

  10. Not so mate - well, not for all of us, by and large it depends on your trade and where your deployments are. I've been a permanent downgrade for several years (osteoarthritis), but I was on det in 2016 and I'll be going again in 2019. It does limit where I'm allowed to go (ie I can't go anywhere 'fun'), but I still go.
    Good on you bud.

    I've got that. I'm just not telling the b@stards. They don't treat me medically or dentally, they have no right to decide what I can and can't do.

 

 
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