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Crisis in the green jobs?

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    Crisis in the green jobs?

    Reading this (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle320343.ece) in the Indy this morning, seems the brown jobs are starting to vote with the feet too!

    Perhaps the Gov may start to look at our (Crabs, Matlots and Pongos) conditions soon?

    Well hope springs eternal.

    #2
    excellent post....one that I hope will get a great deal of dicussion going

    I will reproduce it here so that people can quote etc.

    Taken from "The Independant". If they moan about us reproducing it I will remove it. However it is a topic which involves us directly so it shouldnt be a problem.


    A string of incidents in the past week has contributed to the sense of crisis:

    * The Ministry of Defence has launched an inquiry into the apparent suicide of Captain Ken Masters, a military police investigator who was found hanged at his barracks in Basra.

    * A decision by Private Troy Samuels, who was awarded a Military Cross seven months ago for his bravery under fire in Iraq, to abandon the military rather than return for another tour of duty.

    * Seventy soldiers from Private Samuels' battalion, the Princess of Wales Regiment (1PWRR), have also decided to leave the Army during the past year rather than return to Iraq

    * An RAF officer, Flt-Lt Malcolm Kendall-Smith, said he was prepared to face jail rather than serve in Iraq, in a war he considers to be illegal. He is to be court-martialled for "refusing to obey a lawful command" and is the first British officer to face criminal charges for challenging the legality of the war.

    The increasingly desperate position of British troops in southern Iraq was highlighted last night by the former cabinet minister Clare Short. "The Government are putting the armed forces into an impossible position," she said. "It is obviously affecting morale."

    Ms Short, who resigned over the war, is introducing a Bill on Friday to compel the Government to seek parliamentary approval before going to war again. She added: "An army officer stopped me in the street in Whitehall and said his job was talking to parents of those who had been killed in Iraq. He said he supported what I was doing. He said that his job was unbearable. I think the time has come to get a negotiated timetable for an end to the occupation."

    Such a move seems unlikely, however. Recent comments by the Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, that British forces might have to stay in an increasingly volatile conflict for up to 10 more years have exacerbated fears among British forces that the conflict in which they are engaged is open-ended and lacking a credible exit strategy. There are currently 8,500 British troops in Iraq, most serving a six-month tour of duty. Claims have been made that many of those being sent out feel they do not have the experience to cope with the pressures.

    According to Combat Stress, the military charity dedicated to helping soldiers suffering psychological problems, the seemingly indefinite struggle has created the greatest crisis of morale among British troops for decades.

    Commodore Toby Elliott, the chief executive of Combat Stress, told The Independent that many soldiers were leaving the Army early in the hope that its psychological effects ­ flashbacks, nightmares and guilt that they had survived while colleagues had not ­ would abate. Commodore Elliot said: "The effects of the Iraq situation are comparable to serving in Northern Ireland during the worst of the Troubles when they were subjected to car-bomb attacks."

    The incidents are symptomatic of a general malaise. One corporal said: " This has been a hard, hard tour. I would be glad not to be back in Iraq for a while." Another NCO added: "Mr Blair keeps on saying that everything is getting better here. Perhaps he would care to come and see for himself. He is pretty good at sending other peoples' sons to Iraq."

    Pte Samuels' decision to leave the Army may be a particularly significantlandmark. A war hero, he was decorated for saving lives during the ambush which earned his comrade Pte Johnson Beharry a Victoria Cross. But he told The Independent yesterday that he decided to leave the moment he was told his unit would be returning to Iraq.

    "I couldn't do that," he said, "Not straight away like that. It would be different if they were sending me to somewhere like Afghanistan ­ but not Iraq, right now. The stress for the guys out there is immense. They are seeing so much bad stuff. I owed it to my family to call it a day."

    The current intensity of day-to-day combat is evident in the recent incident logs for Pte Samuel's regiment which show that soldiers have faced 109 individual attacks in a single day.

    Capt Masters, 40, with 24 years' experience, had been involved in investigations of alleged mistreatment of detainees by British soldiers. Army sources have reported that the stress of investigating colleagues may have contributed to his death.

    Pte Samuel's decision to leave showed that "psychological injuries" could affect the bravest of officers, said a spokesman for Combat Stress, which is helping 57 soldiers from the conflict.

    Paul Beaver, a defence analyst with close links to senior staff, said: " There's obviously a disappointment that things have not gone better. But the main difference between army morale now and 12 months ago is that there is a resignation among the soldiers that they are in it for the long haul. There is also recognition that some of the elements [the Iraqi police] that they trusted can no longer be trusted and that they must fall back on their own resources."
    Cheers

    Wobbly
    E-Goat Head Admin

    "ACTA NON VERBA"

    Forum Etiquette and Rules :: Tech Support :: E-Goat Security :: E-Goat Folding Team ::

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      #3
      Four words SHOW ME THE MONEY !

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        #4
        Only four words? We could get you at least 8 and you will get to keep them all. We claim our words from the guilty party separately.

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          #5
          The whole idea of redundancy or switching to the RNZAF is looking more and more appealing.
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            #6
            Problem we have here is the goverments, seeming, inability to grasp the concept that we in the military are actually people and not the automatons of the 19th century army (thin red line, stepping into your dead friends space, form squares etc) Even amongst the lowest infanteer there is a certain level of intelligence that say's "hang on, what do you mean I am going back there again". The politicians cut the armed forces then give us more to do, they rush new technology (Typhoon etc) without the back up to support it, they take away our, what was, superb medical services (our own hospitals etc) and then wonder why we have so many (genuinely) downgraded people, which means the fit ones end up going OOA time and time again. They make us more fluffy and "diversity aware" a fear into the SNO's that they can't grip the skivers and twisted socks,for ear of getting in to trouble, therefore denigrating the fact that the armed forces (sorry services as we are now), and the RAF in particular are basically civvies in uniform. I have been back and forward to some nasty places during my time, fortunately I have been in a position where I have had control of my own destiny without some ferkin' eejit above me putting me in danger. I do not agree with the RAF doctors stand, he should have resigned his commision if he felt that strongly. I have a lot of sympathy for Pvt Samuals, good luck to him, at least he voted with his feet, this from a brave man. In conclusion, we can't get at the politician's but the military now has web sites (such as E-Goat, AArse and PPrune) and you can be sure that the powers that be do read them. Make your feelings known, many of us are proud to be in the RAF and serve our country (may seem old fashioned but there you go) but there comes a time when we have to say no! By the way "nerd shorn" can you explain your last post on this thread, was it meant to be funny or does it actually mean something?

            PS

            Just heard on the 1000hrs news, the MOD has confirmed the death of a British soldier by a road side bomb how many more before Uncle Tony gets the message.
            Well I heard about the Goater you bin dancin' with, all over the neighbourhood, so why din' you ask me RAFBird, or did'n u think I could.

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              #7
              Accordig to the Guardian today " The war in Iraq is putting off recruits". The army is facing a recruitment crisis triggered partly by its operations in Iraq. The shortfall in the total number of soldiers has risen by more than 300% this year to more than 2000, according to the latest Ministry of Defence figures.
              General Sir Michael Walker, the chief of defence staff, recently conceded that the army's ability to attract new recruitswas suffering because people saw the armed forces as " guilty by association" with Tony Blair's decision to invade Iraq.
              I suppose if they can't get people through the careers office door, they won't need to do any more to cut the number of people in forces, so saving a fortune in redundancy pay outs.
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                #8
                This will, I;m sure, put the kids off joining the armed forces and rightly so. I am a father and about 15 years ago I wouldnt have battered an eyelid about letting my lads join the forces. However, today is a different matter. I wouldnt want my lads to go through all the crap that is happening today, being fooked about, day in day out, sent here, sent there, and all to look after somebody elses interests.

                Lets face it, all the seniors are banging out and theres nobody coming in through the doors at the bottom to replace them. Hmm, at this rate I can see conscription raising its ugly head....or there will be so few people across the services that we will all know each other on first name terms.
                Cheers

                Wobbly
                E-Goat Head Admin

                "ACTA NON VERBA"

                Forum Etiquette and Rules :: Tech Support :: E-Goat Security :: E-Goat Folding Team ::

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by wobbly
                  or there will be so few people across the services that we will all know each other on first name terms.

                  I believe that we may almost be there now, look across the fleets and I bet you can name quite a few guys/gals.

                  On a more serious note http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/s...353989,00.html condolences to the family and friends.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Food for thought from the Guardian.

                    An exit strategy is the management of retreat. The cabinet's refusal to adopt one not only betrays its befuddled mission in Iraq but outrages the reputation of the British army. The invasion was merely illegal. The occupation has been the most bafflingly inept venture undertaken by western powers in modern history. I tremble to think what Tony Blair and George Bush would have done with the cold war.

                    The British cabinet now owes it to those it has sent to their deaths to remove the army from Iraq with expedition and dignity. Having just spent a week with that army I have no doubt of its morale and its loyalty. I also have no doubt of its ruthlessness in joint memoir operations. In the not too distant future, Blair, Straw, Reid and Hoon are going to know the full meaning of "shock and awe".

                    These men have left a British army stranded in an Arabian desert with no apparent exit and no control over its fate. Their only possible redemption is to withdraw that army (other than as advisers) when the next Baghdad government is installed in the new year. Iraq can then be left to the Iraqis. If the Americans want to stay, more fool them.

                    Before leaving Baghdad I saw on television a desperate earthquake rescuer in Pakistan pleading for just one thing, helicopters, to save thousands from death in the mountains. Two hours' hop to the west, I was gazing on inert helicopters as far as the eye could see. Not one was saving lives - only political skins.
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                      #11
                      Problem with pulling out of Iraq is that there wont be a staging post to attack Iran. Think about why the British government is putting troops into Afghanistan. I know they say its to kill the poppy trade, so why hasn't that been done by now. 90% of the UK's cocaine is produced in Afghanistan.

                      Anyway better to lose a few troops than Phoney Tony lose his job!!!!! Tony is only thinking about his place in History not his own troops.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Being picky I know but its opium they produce in afghanistan, which supplies 90% of the UK's heroin.
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                          #13
                          Sorry to be further picky, and I am not starting an argument here.........but

                          Afghanistan is the world's largest producer of opium; cultivation of opium poppy reached unprecedented level of 206,700 hectares in 2004; counterdrug efforts largely unsuccessful; potential opium production of 4,950 metric tons; potential heroin production of 582 metric tons if all opium was processed; source of hashish; many narcotics-processing labs throughout the country; drug trade source of instability and some antigovernment groups profit from the trade; 80-90% of the heroin consumed in Europe comes from Afghan opium; vulnerable to narcotics money laundering through informal financial networks.

                          Check here if you dont believe me

                          http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...elds/2086.html

                          Its the CIA site

                          So you should now see what I mean't by the Poppy fields

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                            #14
                            I'm not argueing that mate, its just you said afghanistan was responsible for 90% of the UK's supply of cocaine in your first post.
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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Plumber
                              Two hours' hop to the west, I was gazing on inert helicopters as far as the eye could see. .
                              Damn the jorno's been to south oxfordshire and seen the EH101s

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