Med centres and weekends

[jack brew]

Genuine question; What are you meant to do if you're taken ill when the med centre is closed?

Fend for yourself? That can't be right. I know there is emergency cover (sometimes!) but you can still be caught out, especially if you can't drive to A&E or a pharmacist!

[superstacker]

There should be a duty medic to call out for emergencies...IE stuff that cant wait till monday.

If its a bad stomach..the runs...or a headache then you need to consider if its an emergency, and if its not then fend for yourself until sick parade (or monday morning)

Hope this helps

[Shinyscot]

I think you have to call NHS direct, same as you would if you were a civvy.

[Tashy_Man]

Take a look at THIS (http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7517) thread to see what i think of Medics and med centres.......total waste of time in this day and age when we have to rely so much on NHS24/direct !!

Crack on...............:PDT_Xtremez_09:

[Tashy_Man]

There should be a duty medic to call out for emergencies...IE stuff that cant wait till monday.

If its a bad stomach..the runs...or a headache then you need to consider if its an emergency, and if its not then fend for yourself until sick parade (or monday morning)

Hope this helps

But when does a bad stomach become an emergency ? I had a said "bad stomach" last year.......missus tried camp med centre and guardroom no answer from pager etc....she phoned NHS direct they said go to A & E....was kept in for 3 days, then sent home with an appointment to take out my gall bladder..........Med centres are a waste of time !!

Crack on.............:PDT_Xtremez_09:

[Talk Wrench]

Genuine question; What are you meant to do if you're taken ill when the med centre is closed?

Fend for yourself? That can't be right. I know there is emergency cover (sometimes!) but you can still be caught out, especially if you can't drive to A&E or a pharmacist!


Just bypass the RAF Med system and go civvy straight away. At the end of the day, the RAF Medics will probably just have you referred to a Civvy Hosp anyway if you are really ill.

[superstacker]

But when does a bad stomach become an emergency ? I had a said "bad stomach" last year.......missus tried camp med centre and guardroom no answer from pager etc....she phoned NHS direct they said go to A & E....was kept in for 3 days, then sent home with an appointment to take out my gall bladder..........Med centres are a waste of time !!

Crack on.............:PDT_Xtremez_09:

Wow!

Of course im not a doctor, but im guessing that it wasnt just an upset stomach you were feeling in that case...

In an ideal world i suppose there should be someone in med centre 24/7... even if it was a sleeping duty or something.

[Tashy_Man]

Wow!

Of course im not a doctor, but im guessing that it wasnt just an upset stomach you were feeling in that case...


But thats how it starts....like a stomach ache but gradually gets worse and worse till you can't stand straight........if it had been a simple stomach ache i would have been embarresed having to go to A & E though.......there should always be someone in the med centre as far as i'm concerned.

Crack on..............:PDT_Xtremez_09:

[r0jaws]

I was at Lakenheath today and had a bit of a nose around.
They have a Hospital inside the wire.
Wonder what it's like to go away and not have to worry about the family at all?
I'll ask next time I'm there.

[mememe]

These are the facts:
Med Centres are only there to cover Service flying over weekends not patients. The local NHS Trust are paid handsomley for that privillage.
I am not surprised to read the whinging on this subject as you have been rapped in cottonwool and spoon fed for so many years regarding Medical facilities on base. The cotton wool days are gone DEAL WITH IT. You now get the same treatment at the same time as the civvy guy down the road over a weekend!
Personnel within the medical world have a good laugh (at your expence) just wishing they were a fly on the wall when you become a civvy and demand the same treatment and cover you currently get when you register with a civvy practice. I am more than sure they would take great delight in telling you to f off. As for the thread about not being able to drive...What do you think the civvy does? call out MT? No! he will get there by whatever means, I am sure you have heard of taxi's. A wife recently tried to call out the local NHS Dr for a home visit- reason- she couldn't drive- answer by NHS- not our problem! good on them! If it is a genuine emergency call an ambulance however, if you try to con them they will bill you.
Expectations of patients, especially the families are unrealistically high. It boils down to resources and the cover over weekends is financially driven. So before you slag off the Medical Centre staff remember the service you would receive from the NHS and if you don't like it PVR!!!:PDT_Xtremez_28:

[Talk Wrench]

These are the facts:
Med Centres are only there to cover Service flying over weekends not patients. The local NHS Trust are paid handsomley for that privillage.
I am not surprised to read the whinging on this subject as you have been rapped in cottonwool and spoon fed for so many years regarding Medical facilities on base. The cotton wool days are gone DEAL WITH IT. You now get the same treatment at the same time as the civvy guy down the road over a weekend!
Personnel within the medical world have a good laugh (at your expence) just wishing they were a fly on the wall when you become a civvy and demand the same treatment and cover you currently get when you register with a civvy practice. I am more than sure they would take great delight in telling you to f off. As for the thread about not being able to drive...What do you think the civvy does? call out MT? No! he will get there by whatever means, I am sure you have heard of taxi's. A wife recently tried to call out the local NHS Dr for a home visit- reason- she couldn't drive- answer by NHS- not our problem! good on them! If it is a genuine emergency call an ambulance however, if you try to con them they will bill you.
Expectations of patients, especially the families are unrealistically high. It boils down to resources and the cover over weekends is financially driven. So before you slag off the Medical Centre staff remember the service you would receive from the NHS and if you don't like it PVR!!!:PDT_Xtremez_28:


MEMEME,

Interesting first post. I think I'm just gonna sit back and watch this one out.


:PDT_Xtremez_42:

TW

[Realist78]

These are the facts:
Med Centres are only there to cover Service flying over weekends not patients. The local NHS Trust are paid handsomley for that privillage.
I am not surprised to read the whinging on this subject as you have been rapped in cottonwool and spoon fed for so many years regarding Medical facilities on base. The cotton wool days are gone DEAL WITH IT. You now get the same treatment at the same time as the civvy guy down the road over a weekend!
Personnel within the medical world have a good laugh (at your expence) just wishing they were a fly on the wall when you become a civvy and demand the same treatment and cover you currently get when you register with a civvy practice. I am more than sure they would take great delight in telling you to f off. As for the thread about not being able to drive...What do you think the civvy does? call out MT? No! he will get there by whatever means, I am sure you have heard of taxi's. A wife recently tried to call out the local NHS Dr for a home visit- reason- she couldn't drive- answer by NHS- not our problem! good on them! If it is a genuine emergency call an ambulance however, if you try to con them they will bill you.
Expectations of patients, especially the families are unrealistically high. It boils down to resources and the cover over weekends is financially driven. So before you slag off the Medical Centre staff remember the service you would receive from the NHS and if you don't like it PVR!!!:PDT_Xtremez_28:

What a load of feckin @rse! Wrapped in cotton wool? Is this the same security blanket that the civilian population uses everytime one of the so called emergency services lets the public down by striking and leaving the Forces to pick up the pieces? We are not civvies and deserve to be treat with some respect (the Spams have it about right) by people that hide behind the freedom and democracy that we uphold and defend. Your spouting drivel deserves to be in the bin. Broaden your mind and take the blinkers off.::/:

[PingDit]

I've been in this position on occasions. I'm obviously allowed to see the SMO if needed, but I've also registered with a civvy practice as well, sort of covers both sides of the fence. If Mrs. Ping needs to make an appointment at the civvy practice though, she usually has to wait in the region of 2 weeks. Not very good if it's serious. At that point it's either A & E or wait it out.

[muttywhitedog]

At our Med Centre, it is very hard for someone sick to get an appointment due to the number of fit and well Sqn personnel having to repeatedly visit to get their OOA preps re-signed by a nurse to say they are fit for deployment.

To the comment about "If you dont like it - PVR" How about offering those who live away from base the opportunity to permanently de-register and not have any dealings with the SMC?

....And if the sole purpose of Med Centres is to support flying, how come non-flying units have them?

[T55]

These are the facts:
Med Centres are only there to cover Service flying over weekends not patients. The local NHS Trust are paid handsomley for that privillage.
I am not surprised to read the whinging on this subject as you have been rapped in cottonwool and spoon fed for so many years regarding Medical facilities on base. The cotton wool days are gone DEAL WITH IT. You now get the same treatment at the same time as the civvy guy down the road over a weekend!
Personnel within the medical world have a good laugh (at your expence) just wishing they were a fly on the wall when you become a civvy and demand the same treatment and cover you currently get when you register with a civvy practice. I am more than sure they would take great delight in telling you to f off. As for the thread about not being able to drive...What do you think the civvy does? call out MT? No! he will get there by whatever means, I am sure you have heard of taxi's. A wife recently tried to call out the local NHS Dr for a home visit- reason- she couldn't drive- answer by NHS- not our problem! good on them! If it is a genuine emergency call an ambulance however, if you try to con them they will bill you.
Expectations of patients, especially the families are unrealistically high. It boils down to resources and the cover over weekends is financially driven. So before you slag off the Medical Centre staff remember the service you would receive from the NHS and if you don't like it PVR!!!:PDT_Xtremez_28:

There used to be a time when the RAF recruitment camapaign used "the free medical service" as one of the bonus points to join. As with most other service benefits this has also been eroded, it may still be free but it's certainly not as good as it used to be. Rather than PVR if you don't like it I would consider joining BUPA or similar at a forces discounted rate.

[tats]

There used to be a time when the RAF recruitment camapaign used "the free medical service" as one of the bonus points to join. As with most other service benefits this has also been eroded, it may still be free but it's certainly not as good as it used to be. Rather than PVR if you don't like it I would consider joining BUPA or similar at a forces discounted rate.

They still use it as a benefit to encourage sign ups.

[T55]

They still use it as a benefit to encourage sign ups.
You mean they still lie to us?

[superstacker]

"If you dont like it PVR"


I for one am sick of this comment being banded around as a "one size fits all" comment for ****e service or to cover up for stupid rules or policies.

[Almost_done]

These are the facts:
Med Centres are only there to cover Service flying over weekends not patients. The local NHS Trust are paid handsomley for that privillage.
I am not surprised to read the whinging on this subject as you have been rapped in cottonwool and spoon fed for so many years regarding Medical facilities on base. The cotton wool days are gone DEAL WITH IT. You now get the same treatment at the same time as the civvy guy down the road over a weekend!
Personnel within the medical world have a good laugh (at your expence) just wishing they were a fly on the wall when you become a civvy and demand the same treatment and cover you currently get when you register with a civvy practice. I am more than sure they would take great delight in telling you to f off. As for the thread about not being able to drive...What do you think the civvy does? call out MT? No! he will get there by whatever means, I am sure you have heard of taxi's. A wife recently tried to call out the local NHS Dr for a home visit- reason- she couldn't drive- answer by NHS- not our problem! good on them! If it is a genuine emergency call an ambulance however, if you try to con them they will bill you.
Expectations of patients, especially the families are unrealistically high. It boils down to resources and the cover over weekends is financially driven. So before you slag off the Medical Centre staff remember the service you would receive from the NHS and if you don't like it PVR!!!:PDT_Xtremez_28:

Well from my point of view you represent everything that is wrong with the Service today.

You are the reason I HAVE registered my family with a local GP NOT the Med Center, I have had very good treatment in the local NHS, after the SMO informed me 'ah come in sit down Cpl A_D you may have cancer'. Feck me what a decent bedside manner.

After seeing the many and varied clusters made in the so called holy grail of RAF Medical Care I relish the thought of becoming a civvy joining my companies Private Medical care plan and being able to sit back and not worry about whatever the jokers in the Med Center are going to do, that is if you can ever see one!!

Hey princess, dry your eyes and get a real job!

[Albert Park]

"If you dont like it PVR"


I for one am sick of this comment being banded around as a "one size fits all" comment for ****e service or to cover up for stupid rules or policies.
Off Topic
It's a strap-line that gets a regular airing on e-goat. It's usually imbeciles who have run out of steam that like to use it.

It sometimes comes across as 'and hand your ID/1250 in at the main gate'. Both fu(kin puerile statements.

[sculthorpe]

What a load of feckin @rse! Wrapped in cotton wool? Is this the same security blanket that the civilian population uses everytime one of the so called emergency services lets the public down by striking and leaving the Forces to pick up the pieces? We are not civvies and deserve to be treat with some respect (the Spams have it about right) by people that hide behind the freedom and democracy that we uphold and defend. Your spouting drivel deserves to be in the bin. Broaden your mind and take the blinkers off.::/:

From what I have been able to sort out concerning the med. coverage in the R.A.F. , I'm glad the "spams"as you call us, don't have to go the same route. When I was on active service,many years ago, any base I was on had a full time hospital, and full coverage on nights and weekends.I expect it is still pretty much the same. I would hope so anyhow!

[penfold93]

This subject was done to death by tashy a while back and thanks to mememe the animosity towards the med centres continues to grumble away.

For those of you who have registered with a civvie GP ensure all consultations are forwarded to the med centre as if god forbid you are required to attenda med board then if it aint on your FMed 4 it did not happen.

Medical Centres that open after hours are to cover flying times. Virtually all RAF stations have a med centre.

Comparing us with the Spams is bollox bear in mind that the USAF are aiming to 'lose' 50,00 personnel this year a total which is more than the current total manning of the RAF if we were as big a force then we would have the resources the man power and the necessity for our own military hospitals.

All medical centres have an out of hours procedure which should be available in the practice info leaflet, on the intranet and usually in orders. It is your responsibility to be aware of these procedures. Most have contracts with local GP practices etc. If you can not get seen then as has been said call NHS direct or go to A&E, if you cannot drive then taxi, bus or ambulance, mate etc.

The sad fact is as with all areas of the armed forces over stretch and underfunding has caused the problems in the med centres not the staff themselves. Vast areas of our work as the RAF is contracted out to civvy companies and medical care is no different.

As said before this has been done to death before so if no one can come up with sensible arguements both for and against then either dont post or I will close the thread.

Mememe an introduction would be appreciated before jumping in both feet first. Next time get shoes that fit and get your facts straight there are those on here wth better things to do than clean up after your rantings:PDT_Xtremez_25:

[Talk Wrench]

As said before this has been done to death before so if no one can come up with sensible arguements both for and against then either dont post or I will close the thread.

:PDT_Xtremez_25:



Oh to be in a position of power eh :PDT_Xtremez_15:


Let the debate unfold. If the debate is there, it means that a problem remains unresolved.

As far as I can see, this thread is just a small pointer for the unwashed, non medical trades to the backward state of the RAF Medical service.



TW

[Boomerang]

Good to see that 1st poster mememe has fullfilled the spot of being a wanker and obviously not brave enough to add a reply...............or are you too busy tryin' to figure out how to remove the backing off the plaster.:PDT_Xtremez_25:

[Rammy]

Every medical centre will have it's own methods of operating depending on the requirements of the wider RAF and of course, the Unit.

The medical centre staff, like any other section/department/squadron is dictated to by a higher authority. Some Med Centres will cater for families and provide an out of hours service - others simply can't.

Every Med Centre is subjected to the complaints procedure and as such, a member of staff usually a SNCO and often the Deputy Practice Manager will be appointed as the Complaints Manager. They should be your first POC if your unhappy with the treatment provided or lack of available medical services.

As Penfold has already said, Med Centres face the same shortages in manpower and work under the same constraints as everyone else. All I have seen here are poor, unsubstantiated attempts to knock Medics and Med Centres for the sake of it. I doubt many of the posters making these complaints have ever run the gauntlet that is the NHS Doctor's Surgery. Just you wait.... How many disgruntled posters here have ever been bothered enough to make a complaint? Or do you just vent your whinges on the internet?

My civvy wife recently accompanied me for an appointment at an RAF Med Centre, she asked me how she could register herself within 5 minutes of being there. And to be honest, the Med Centre in question was no better than many others I've been in throughout my career.

I'm sure everybody can find fault in every section and on every unit if they look close enough.

[penfold93]

Another point to mention is the very real issue of accountability.

Would you take yourself off to the St Johns Ambulance service if you were ill (not knocking them they are a good bunch). No you would seek advice from a professional eg Dr or Nurse. Although our medics undergo a great deal of training and in the cold light of day medics are highly trained first aiders with a good degree of medical admin training but thats it. When they have done the paramedics they become qualified paramedics, but even civvie paramedics take their patients to hospital for care further treatment and a diagnosis from a Dr.

As a qualified techie would you allow an unqualified individual diagnose a fault on an AC, attempt to fix it and then let the AC fly again without checking it? I think not that would be gross negligence. The same is true of a person piching up to a medical centre. If a course of treatment is required, a prescription etc then a DR must be present. We have not got the money to spend a couple of grand a day for a locum Dr to cover the short fall in service Drs.

On the whole medics do a good job are highly skilled at their role but in todays society they are restricted as to what they can do unsupervised.

The original question posed by JB was what should he do if the med centre is closed. So shall we answer the question rather than have a cheap shot at the medics (as said before it was already done in tashy's thread)

[mememe]

Thank you for your constructive comments about my feet and shoes that fit. I did not realise this was such an emotive subject but as they say, touch paper lit stand well back!I stand by everything I wrote as it is indeed FACT, however, I will apologise if it is not in the normal fluffy way that patients tend to be pacified with. These are the facts like it or lump it. There is nothing that can be done within med centres about out of hours cover, like everything else in the military they are dictated to by a higher authority who, in turn are dictated to by governmental ministers who are dictated to by the treasury.

I contest your issues regarding getting my facts straight (please quantify), they are correct, however, as the moderator could I humbly suggest that to endorse someone to register with both a civvy GP on a perm basis is probably not a good move. I quote (fact)(again) It is illegal for RAF personnel to register with a civilian GP on a permanent basis. Personnel (other than those living in Northern Ireland) who live away from their parenting medical centre can request emergency and immediate care from a local civilian GP. Any treatment received is to be reported to the patient’s SMO in accordance with QR 1514 (http://www.publications.raf.r.mil.uk/live/qrs/ch19.htm#1514)(3).
This is straight from the AP so fact.
I did not jump in feet first as reported I spoke the truth and if this is unpaltable then perhaps the reader should stick with the RAF News as everything is Rosie in that.
Happy to discuss the facts further.

[Rammy]

Mememe,

The point has already been made.

To continue as you are does nothing than belittle the Med Asst/Admin trade and I'm sure that's not really your objective.

I understand your frustration and actually find that, during a time when personnel from all trades are leaving in their droves, your commitment is refreshing; however, I fear that you're on to a hiding to nothing in repeating yourself here.

One small point if I may. It isn't illegal for anyone to attempt to register elsewhere. An illegal act is one that breaks the law.

[penfold93]

These are the facts:
Med Centres are only there to cover Service flying over weekends not patients. The local NHS Trust are paid handsomley for that privillage.
I am not surprised to read the whinging on this subject as you have been rapped in cottonwool and spoon fed for so many years regarding Medical facilities on base. The cotton wool days are gone DEAL WITH IT. You now get the same treatment at the same time as the civvy guy down the road over a weekend!
Personnel within the medical world have a good laugh (at your expence) just wishing they were a fly on the wall when you become a civvy and demand the same treatment and cover you currently get when you register with a civvy practice. I am more than sure they would take great delight in telling you to f off. As for the thread about not being able to drive...What do you think the civvy does? call out MT? No! he will get there by whatever means, I am sure you have heard of taxi's. A wife recently tried to call out the local NHS Dr for a home visit- reason- she couldn't drive- answer by NHS- not our problem! good on them! If it is a genuine emergency call an ambulance however, if you try to con them they will bill you.
Expectations of patients, especially the families are unrealistically high. It boils down to resources and the cover over weekends is financially driven. So before you slag off the Medical Centre staff remember the service you would receive from the NHS and if you don't like it PVR!!!:PDT_Xtremez_28:

The first statement may be true of some Med Centres but some still do provide a weekend cover depending on where you are.

Statements like that are unnecessary and as a member of the medical profession I have never laughed at any ones expense with regards the provision of medical care and i think you will find that the majority of members on here realise full well the impact of moving into a civvie care environment. So if you are a member of the medical prefession then with that sort of attitude its no wonder we get a bad name.

Why shouldnt families expectations be high when are large number are forced to follow their partners career around the country if no the world. One of the serious issues facing accompanied tours is what standard of health care will we get when abroad.

Thank you for quoting QR's to me and suprisingly I am fully aware of what the QR's state as well as AP1269 etc. This is an unofficial community forum and as I explained if they receive treatment they must inform their MO, I am not going to abuse my position as a Moderator and as a member of the RAF by hunting this person down and then reporting them. If that was the case the vast majority of the members here would be in trouble.

The final point is the if you dont like it then PVR line. You are new here and so will probably not appreciate that it is a throw away line on here. Some of us dont have the luxury of doing it, some already have but it still doesnt solve the problem.

We are all suffering overstretch and financial problems, but explaining the impact of these on the medical services in an eloquent and informed way will get more positive responses and a degree of understanding. Rather than getting everyones back up.

If you cannot respond in a civilised manner then dont bother to respond at all

[rodger-dodger]

Can I just say:0 RAF Halton Med Centre, in my opinion, great:PDT_Xtremez_17: Good Dr's, good nurses, good suport staffs, nice atmosphere, informed patients. On This subject I think alot of people are finding change difficult to come to terms with. Our service is changing, some may think it's not for the best, others just get on with it it and accept that sh*t happens, In a way (whilst I don't encourage his/her methods of introduction) mememe is sharing albeit extreme cases of reality to the forum. All of us, have had unfortunate experiences of various aspects of service life, and at the end of the day your still here, The grass then, is not always greener, is it........

My Wife is a healthcare professional and she often reminds me (when i have the occasional moan) that we in the services have no room to gripe at the service we get. We are somewhat insular to the realities of civvi life, and whilst i don't like the phrase 'if you don't like it PVR', please feel free to do so. and then see how long it takes for reality to set in and wish you were back in the fold.

[mememe]

Can I just say:0 RAF Halton Med Centre, in my opinion, great:PDT_Xtremez_17: Good Dr's, good nurses, good suport staffs, nice atmosphere, informed patients. On This subject I think alot of people are finding change difficult to come to terms with. Our service is changing, some may think it's not for the best, others just get on with it it and accept that sh*t happens, In a way (whilst I don't encourage his/her methods of introduction) mememe is sharing albeit extreme cases of reality to the forum. All of us, have had unfortunate experiences of various aspects of service life, and at the end of the day your still here, The grass then, is not always greener, is it........

My Wife is a healthcare professional and she often reminds me (when i have the occasional moan) that we in the services have no room to gripe at the service we get. We are somewhat insular to the realities of civvi life, and whilst i don't like the phrase 'if you don't like it PVR', please feel free to do so. and then see how long it takes for reality to set in and wish you were back in the fold.

If some of my lines are "through away" and offended I apologise.
This post is articulated extremely well and the author has nailed the issue.
Medics will always be the whipping boys so I can conclude (if I am allowed to) that this will never change on the other hand the good will shown consistantly by these guys has been erroded, being asked to do the same if not more work than was previously carried out by 2-3 medics, I suspect it will get worse. And I am well aware we are all in the same boat/ship.:PDT_Xtremez_28:

[Rammy]

If some of my lines are "through away" and offended I apologise.
This post is articulated extremely well and the author has nailed the issue.
Medics will always be the whipping boys so I can conclude (if I am allowed to) that this will never change on the other hand the good will shown consistantly by these guys has been erroded, being asked to do the same if not more work than was previously carried out by 2-3 medics, I suspect it will get worse. And I am well aware we are all in the same boat/ship.:PDT_Xtremez_28:

You're just saying that coz you work at Halton?:PDT_Xtremez_31: