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ED-SET
23-08-2007, 20:33
Pick the bones out of this beauty!

Armed Forces Manning Figures Released


Thursday, August 23, 2007

Source: MoD





Latest Armed Forces manning figures released

The Ministry of Defence has today, Thursday 23 August 2007, published the official manning figures for the Army, Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force.


Provisional figures show that as at 1 July 2007, the total trained strength for the Royal Navy was 94.7 per cent manned against a target of 36,720. At the same date, the RAF was 94.3 per cent manned against a target of 45,020. The Army's trained strength is 97.6 per cent against a requirement of 101,800 as at 1 April 2007.

It is not possible to provide the figures for the Army for 1 July 2007 in the August quarterly report. The records have been transferred on to the new Joint Personnel Administration system (JPA) and require further data validation before they comply with National Statistic guidelines. However the figures for 1 April 2007 do provide the first validated statistics for the Army under the new JPA system. The intention is that the July figures will be published in the next quarterly report.

Minister of State for the Armed Forces, Bob Ainsworth, said:

"These official National Statistics show that recruitment into the Royal Navy and RAF remains strong in the demanding conditions of a buoyant economy. Voluntary outflow rates also continue to be stable. We know that there are shortages in pinch point areas but we are taking action where we can to reduce the pressure.

"The Armed Forces recruited 97% of the target last year, which is 1,210 more people than the previous year. We continue to make a determined effort to recruit high quality people into the Armed Forces.

"It's important that we publish accurate statistics in full, when they are complete and not before then. It's also vital that we uphold our obligation to publish statistics in line with national guidelines.

"JPA is a new, modern tri-service system designed to simplify administration and provide a high-quality personnel service to our people. At unit level, we know exactly how many people we have, how much they're getting paid and what they are doing. Our top priority while JPA is being rolled out, is getting people paid the right amount, on time."

By April 2008, we expect to be able to publish the Army statistics at the same time as those for the RAF and Royal Navy. Until then, the Army figures will be released three months later than the quarterly statistics.

JPA is accessible from anywhere in the world and allows individuals to update, on-line, certain pieces of personal information, such as bank details and their home address. JPA also allows individuals to access their pay statements, apply for leave, submit travel, allowances and expense claims and undertake other basic personnel tasks.

Transferring all Army records was a huge task. The records have been transferred on to the new administration system, however there is still outstanding data validation to be done before the latest Army figures comply with National Statistic guidelines. The Defence Analytical Services Agency are still validating Army data and we would be failing in our duty if we released data to the public that was not adequately validated.

April 2007 was the first ever tri-Service pay run for the Armed Forces, resulting in a 99.2% accuracy rate and figures for both May and June have achieved over 99.5% accuracy.

JPA is a major business change programme (similar to the People Programme for civilians) and one of the most complex business change projects to be undertaken in either the private or public sector. The supporting computer software application is one of the largest Oracle HR implementations worldwide

At a Departmental level, JPA will help produce a comprehensive up-to-date picture of the size and shape of the Armed Forces for the first time, with data captured only once at source and transmitted electronically with minimal intervention. There is still validation work to be done in this area but over time the data within JPA will build up to provide the Department with a rich supply of management information to support operational decisions and the development of evidence-based policy.

The JPA system was introduced to the RAF at the end of March 2006 and to the Royal Navy at the end of October 2006. Due to the size of these two services, DASA were able to track the information for the manning figures. Due to the much larger size and complex structure of the Army, this was not possible in the timescales available.

Due to the introduction of JPA all data from the 1 July 2007 are currently provisional and subject to review.

The total Armed Forces manning requirement has decreased due to previously announced restructuring across the Services. This restructuring is designed to improve capability and flexibility in order to meet the demands of current and future operations.

All figures and percentages exclude the Home Service battalions of the Royal Irish Regiment and Reservists mobilised for service.

Edzar
23-08-2007, 21:02
Pick the bones out of this beauty!

The total Armed Forces manning requirement has decreased due to previously announced restructuring across the Services. This restructuring is designed to improve capability and flexibility in order to meet the demands of current and future operations.



Really?

Now we have more operations than before how the fcuk do they expect to do that with a reduction in numbers of personnel?::P:

Bluntend
23-08-2007, 21:14
"These official National Statistics show that recruitment into the Royal Navy and RAF remains strong in the demanding conditions of a buoyant economy. Voluntary outflow rates also continue to be stable. We know that there are shortages in pinch point areas but we are taking action where we can to reduce the pressure.

I think Bob Ainsworth's comments above simply say what we already knew. Although we're still getting bums on seats, UK Armed Forces Plc lacks hands on experience. To say that outflow is stable is not the same as saying that it isn't critical, or that it has reduced - in fact it is an admission that they have been unable to slow outflow. People are leaving at a steady rate, but quite how sustainable that rate is, is not commented on.

Mug?
23-08-2007, 22:50
Pick the bones out of this beauty!

Minister of State for the Armed Forces, Bob Ainsworth, said:

"It's important that we publish accurate statistics in full, when they are complete and not before then. It's also vital that we uphold our obligation to publish statistics in line with national guidelines.

"JPA is a new, modern tri-service system designed to simplify administration and provide a high-quality personnel service to our people. (sack the designer cos it doesnt do what it says on the tin does it!!!!)At unit level, we know exactly how many people we have, how much they're getting paid and what they are doing. Our top priority while JPA is being rolled out, is getting people paid the right amount, on time."
By April 2008, we expect to be able to publish the Army statistics at the same time as those for the RAF and Royal Navy. Until then, the Army figures will be released three months later than the quarterly statistics.

JPA is accessible from anywhere(are you sure?) in the world and allows individuals to update, on-line, certain pieces of personal information, such as bank details and their home address. JPA also allows individuals to access their pay statements, apply for leave, submit travel, allowances and expense claims and undertake other basic personnel tasks.

Transferring all Army records was a huge(ly underestimated) task. The records have been transferred on to the new administration system, however there is still outstanding data validation to be done before the latest Army figures comply with National Statistic guidelines. The Defence Analytical Services Agency are still validating Army data and we would be failing in our duty if we released data to the public that was not adequately validated.

April 2007 was the first ever tri-Service pay run for the Armed Forces, resulting in a 99.2% accuracy rate and figures for both May and June have achieved over 99.5% accuracy.(NOW SORRY BUT THAT IS B0!!ocks - and you try to tell us that getting accurate stats are important yet you come out with that utter tosh? you telling me that only 0.8% (about 1500?) people had problems with their pay and data, there was most likely that many RAF that were still not upto date - I have not had the right pay since they bought it in and I know I aint alone so take your 0.8 % and do some more checking please, or is that based on the fact we were not able to make any complaint that would not just get a fob off with a "see local HR" reply.... )

-

that feels better to have gotten that off me chest

Soon To Leave
24-08-2007, 09:53
Why is the RAF target over 45,000? I thought it was closer to 42,000.

Soon To Leave
24-08-2007, 10:03
"National Statistics show that recruitment into the Royal Navy and RAF remains strong in the demanding conditions of a buoyant economy"

" We continue to make a determined effort to recruit high quality people into the Armed Forces."

Whilst he mentions 'a determined effort' he implies that in the conditions of a buoyant economy this is an aspiration that is currently not achieved.

I must admit, if times had been buoyant at the time I enlisted, I wouldn't have joined either.

Billy Whizz
24-08-2007, 10:10
If we're at 45,000 now and going down to 42,000 by 01 Apr 08 that's 3,000 people gotta leave in the next 7 months. And that's without those who have already left on redundancy!!!

Somehow, the figures just don't seem to add up? :PDT_Xtremez_42:

True Blue Jack
24-08-2007, 10:16
If we're at 45,000 now and going down to 42,000 by 01 Apr 08 that's 3,000 people gotta leave in the next 7 months. And that's without those who have already left on redundancy!!!

Somehow, the figures just don't seem to add up? :PDT_Xtremez_42:

I think we probably are closer to 42K than 45K but there are a lot of posts that have not yet been disestablished albeit that no-one is filling them at the moment. Otherwise, reading the FMDL figures in the latest 'Personnel Bulletin' makes Bob Ainsworth a damned liar. But then he is an MP.

Billy Whizz
24-08-2007, 11:18
Yeah but the figures mentioned are actual Manning figures - not Post figures?

Realist78
24-08-2007, 11:40
If we're at 45,000 now and going down to 42,000 by 01 Apr 08 that's 3,000 people gotta leave in the next 7 months. And that's without those who have already left on redundancy!!!

Somehow, the figures just don't seem to add up? :PDT_Xtremez_42:

94.3% of 45,020 is 42,544, only another 544 to leave before April 08 but I bet there's more than that leaving over and above the recruitment rate.:PDT_Xtremez_26:

monobrow
24-08-2007, 12:10
BFBS News have been reporting that the RAF is over 2,000 people down. No matter what the lords and masters want to do with the figure we should have, currently that stands true!!

Spurdog
24-08-2007, 16:19
Working at tossford I speak to people from all over the RAF on a daily basis. They are all singing the same song......we are really short of manpower. These figures sound like rowlocks to me. This idiot says that recruitment is still strong. Oh yeah really mate! Is that why we have lowered the entry standards for AMM's and still can't get enough through the door? This same idiot was on newsnight the other day saying that morale in the forces was very high. Personally I think he should shut the fnuck up......deckhiad.

True Blue Jack
24-08-2007, 16:30
BFBS News have been reporting that the RAF is over 2,000 people down. No matter what the lords and masters want to do with the figure we should have, currently that stands true!!

Lies, damn lies and statistics, mate. 94.3% manned sounds a whole lot better than 2000 people short although both statements may be true. What it doesn't tell you is how many of the 94.3% are non-effective for various reasons, e.g., occupying a bed at Selly Oak/Headley Court; twisted socks; pregnant; under 18; in screened posts, etc.

Realist78
24-08-2007, 17:47
Lies, damn lies and statistics, mate. 94.3% manned sounds a whole lot better than 2000 people short although both statements may be true. What it doesn't tell you is how many of the 94.3% are non-effective for various reasons, e.g., occupying a bed at Selly Oak/Headley Court; twisted socks; pregnant; under 18; in screened posts, etc.

Bang on! Everyone across all trades must be noticing that there are fewer bods at the workface and everyone is working a lot harder than before to paper over the cracks. Spin, spin, spin.:raf:

BillyBunter
08-09-2007, 00:38
Yep well said Spin Spin Spin , its all ****e they talk to make it look like its not as bad as it is

Well if they want to keep covering up the cracks to the general public , they been doing it for years , only the poor sod in charge a few years down the line will get the flak for when it all crumbles down

skevans
09-09-2007, 15:28
One thing we have to remember here is that sometimes the figures hide facts that we on the ground know to be true.

I have a WO that finishes work in 10 days and is still in the RAF up to the end of January. So despite being on terminal/resettlement leave etc and non productive to the RAF he would show as a 'filled slot' according to official figures.

FISP post's aside; We don't have any post established to counter OOA's. So all the guys and girls OOA at the minute would show as a 'filled slot' although their job is vacant back at their parent unit.

Sickies! How many sickies do we have? They would show as a 'filled slot' although they may not be productive because of their medical state.

We are not established for many other tasks, such as guard, or even leave, yet the workplace will still be deficient of people because of them.

So although the official figures show that we are in actual fact pretty well manned, the grim reality on every Section, Flight or Squadron is that we are seriously undermanned.

ReluctantClerk
11-09-2007, 20:40
If you want to see what is published by DASA use this link


http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/tsp1/gender.html

Cake or Death
11-09-2007, 21:02
heard a pearler yesterday, and this came via an Airship to squabbling bleeder to a wobbly to and earwiging J/T to CoD. Is it true well, in the current state of lean pulse blah blah could very well be, anyhoo. the figure that was decided on for the amount of manpower the RAF should be cut to was decided upon by a load of airships roughly about a million quid a year in wages worth. In this meeting it was said we need to reduce manpower but to how many, gentlemen lets hear some numbers. someone said 41000 or so it was agreed on and of they wnet for lunch and golf!!!!

Is it true is there slight exagerations, well lets say its just stupid enough to be true.