when are the powers that be....

[Soupdragon]

going to sort out the business of players not playing for the country of their birth?

just watched the All Blacks destroy France for a 2nd week in a row....

Australia as I type are currently making mincemeat of Fiji.....

but the thought occurred to me.. how many of the All Blacks team are actual NZ born and bred? a great number of the team are in fact Fijians, Samoans, Tongans etc...

If the vast majority of the best players from the Pacific Islands are mopped up by NZ then it can only be bad for the teams from the islands... also, remove those players from the All Blacks team and suddenly they dont look so fearsome..

For Australia, Tequiri (sp) has just gone over for his second try of the match against the country of his birth

maybe the powers that be are afraid of the power wielded by the teams from down under

[Twisted]

Money makes the world go round so if someone from the Pacific Islands wants to make a name for themselves and earn some extra cash then why not play for the All Blacks if they are eligible due to ancestory?

The AB's are not unique in this approach even England has capped players who were not born in England.

That said, the AB's will have to undergo some rebuilding after the World Cup as they are going to be bled dry by the Northern Hemisphere. From what I can understand, as it stands Hayman, Mauger Kelleher, Jack, Gear, Oliver and probably McAllister are all heading north [no doubt there'll be others] which means as they will no longer be under contract to the NZRFU then they will not be eligible for AB selection.

What goes around comes around.......

Cheers

:PDT_Xtremez_15:

[Soupdragon]

as i understand it at the moment NZ scours the Pacific Islands for any good up and coming young players...and offers them a 2 year sports scholarship.. once that 2 years is over then they are qualified to play for the All Blacks under residency laws..so to be honest i dont think the ancestry argument comes into it...

If that was the case then possibly most of the Australian squad would qualify to play for the Home nations as the majority of their ancestors were sent there courtesy of Mother England years ago

One of the famous Pontypool front row, i cant remember which one, was actually born in Egypt. It would have taken a brave man indeed tho to suggest that he was anything other than Welsh!!

[Ex-Stacker]

Graham Price was indeed born in Moascar, Egypt, but I think he would have felt Welsh due to his family &/or upbringing. The PI players going to the Wallabies or All Blacks, though playing at a higher standard than they can for their own nations, can't possibly feel that they are truly of that country.

It is a fact that nearly all nations use the residency rules to their own advantage & generally it works quite well. What I find stupid is brothers playing for different nations. The Bachops & Cockbains are prime examples but it is a case of going where you're wanted/needed I suppose, thoughCockbain at least has a reason to represent the Troggs, what reason did Bachop (can't remember whch one) play for Japan?
It is sad to see the PI teams struggling, but unless the IRB starts to seriously invest in these "2nd tier" nations, RU is going to go more & more the way of RL, in the fact that only 3 or 4 nations will truly be competitive.

[rugby then work]

Graham Price was indeed born in Moascar, Egypt, but I think he would have felt Welsh due to his family &/or upbringing. The PI players going to the Wallabies or All Blacks, though playing at a higher standard than they can for their own nations, can't possibly feel that they are truly of that country.

It is a fact that nearly all nations use the residency rules to their own advantage & generally it works quite well. What I find stupid is brothers playing for different nations. The Bachops & Cockbains are prime examples but it is a case of going where you're wanted/needed I suppose, thoughCockbain at least has a reason to represent the Troggs, what reason did Bachop (can't remember whch one) play for Japan?
It is sad to see the PI teams struggling, but unless the IRB starts to seriously invest in these "2nd tier" nations, RU is going to go more & more the way of RL, in the fact that only 3 or 4 nations will truly be competitive.

To be fair there have only ever been 8 truly competitive nations in RU (some may argue less than that), prior to the 1st world cup the 2nd tier nations didn't even get a look in when it came to rugby on the world stage.

The biggest problem with stopping the All Blacks/Australia poaching the Pacific Islands players has always been financial. There's not a lot of money available in the Islands and young players will jump at the chance to move to a country that affords them the opportunity to earn big money playing he sport they love. They then obviously become available through the laws governing residency, though it is their choice to play for their adopted country. These laws are now out of date; they were brought in to enable players to experience international rugby when they had no chance of travelling to the country of their birth (before the advent of cheap and easy air travel).

The Pacific islands are trying to address the problem and have formed the combined Pacific Islands team, they hoped for inclusion in the Super 12 (now super 14) competition or even in the Tri nations but were unfortunately turned down (perhaps a clever way for the AB/Aus to keep the supply of talent coming their way). Until they can play more regular, quality rugby at home, the players are going to keep on going to the clubs in NZ/Aus that will pay them good wages.

As for the NZ players coming to play in the English league, a few of the top players is fine but I agree with the sentiments of Graham Henry, English rugby needs to concentrate on developing our own talent not just buying it in from elsewhere.

[tommo9999]

As for the NZ players coming to play in the English league, a few of the top players is fine but I agree with the sentiments of Graham Henry, English rugby needs to concentrate on developing our own talent not just buying it in from elsewhere.

The easiest way to resolve the development issue is to remove promotion/relegation from the Premiership. That would encourage clubs/franchises to invest in youth without worrying about winning matches. At the moment all the best young talent is sent to one of the academies to become a gym monkey, playing very little rugby. The premiership could (some would say should) then rapidly evolve into a competition that is closer to the Heineken Cup in terms of intensity.

[wolfy]

The Last couple of years Bedford in Div 1 have used quite a lot of young players from Leicester and Northampton, In fact Varndell injured his leg playing for Bedford and was out for some time. The idea of this is that it allows young players from the big clubs to get playing time and helps out smaller clubs that don't have the budget for a large squad.

I myself would like to see a RFU funded squad of young talent distributed across the top clubs, with the proviso that they had to play a minimum number of games to aid the young players development. This would mean that they could rest senior players more without the reliance on imports, there of course would be other benefits to the clubs.

[rugby then work]

The easiest way to resolve the development issue is to remove promotion/relegation from the Premiership. That would encourage clubs/franchises to invest in youth without worrying about winning matches. At the moment all the best young talent is sent to one of the academies to become a gym monkey, playing very little rugby. The premiership could (some would say should) then rapidly evolve into a competition that is closer to the Heineken Cup in terms of intensity.

I don't think the removal of the threat of relegation would stop teams worrying about losing! I believe that there must be promotion/relegation from any league system or it stagnates, If promotion/relegation had been removed a couple of years ago we wouldn't have had the great games that were played against a resurgent Bristol this year ('resurgent Bristol', my god that sticks in my throat). The academy system may be flawed but many top clubs are now putting into place partnerships (as Wolfy says above) with clubs from the lower leagues that will allow the younger players to experience competitive rugby before moving on to play in the premiership. Players will be duel registered which allows the less experienced players to play in the lower league whilst the players from the 2nd tier club benefit from selected joint training sessions with the premiership side.

Gloucester have just entered into just such a partnership with Moseley (a club with a great history themselves).