View Full Version : Janet And Janet Books For Primary School Kids?
mad_collie
22-05-2007, 16:32
I saw this on the local news last night.
While I think kids need to be aware of same sex relationships, do 5 year olds need to learn it at school?
Some of the titles that the kids will be reading are: The Sissy Duckling, Hello Sailor and Daddy's Roommate.
Story here (http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=156582&command=displayContent&sourceNode=156408&contentPK=17371171&folderPk=87028&pNodeId=156139).
While I think kids need to be aware of same sex relationships, do 5 year olds need to learn it at school?
Pathetic! Like a 5 year old is going to pay any attention to such things. Whats gone wrong in this countries education system?.
MingMong
22-05-2007, 16:37
Well, if my kids bring any of that sort of tripe home, I will return it directly to the school, via the shredder!
Far too young Imho for what is a difficult concept for many adults to come to terms with, but I'm sure there will be a few who are glad to see it.
AllWoman
22-05-2007, 16:45
Well, I am not in the least bit homophobic and I believe all children's questions should be answered honestly and openly, but, I really do believe 5 is far too young to be forcing the issue on children. For godsake isn't it bad enough that we are now making them take exams at age 7 without forcing grown up issues on them too!
Yes there are going to be children who ask questions and believe me I've been asked some corkers by my kids, but not when they were 5!!!!
For godsake when is this country going to realise they are kids and deserve to have their childhoods of playing just like we did!
Mrs_Monobrow
22-05-2007, 16:46
My daughter is 5 and doesnt even understand where she comes from the ''natural'' way. She doesnt know anything or understand anything about relationships, love etc etc so she sure as hell wouldnt understand 2 women or men doing what mummy and daddy do (and i mean kissing!).
Completely agree with mingmong, if my kids bring it home, it will be sent straight back complete with a mouthful from me!
I am not a bigot or homophobic. One of my friends is a lesbian and i will bring my kids up the way i was brought up and that is to respect everyone regardless of colour, sexual preference etc, but i do not want it shoved down my daughters throat alongside learning the alphabet!
Surely this is a wind up?
Daddys roommate ?
So are we all Gay,
"you had a roommate daddy did you love him?"
Sorry I will try to bring my kids up with my morals, rightly or wrongly. Keep this stuff out of schools.
Dave-exfairy
22-05-2007, 18:11
Are any of you surprised? This country is a complete shambles and it will get worse before, sorry, IF it gets better.
AllWoman
22-05-2007, 18:31
I agree with you MO4 I have always answered all my kids questions honestly even the difficult ones. Once sat in the car at traffic lights, the car in front had one of those daft signs in its back window, said.........when the red river flows etc etc my 12 year old asks mum what does that mean? Trying to think of a simple explanation I was gobsmacked when he said oh is that like potting the brown instead of the pink!!!!!!
Didn't get me out of explaining it to his ten year old brother though!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_42:
monobrow
22-05-2007, 18:50
Ohhh FFS!! When are they going to cut this crap out???
And 5 year olds getting them read to them?!? What the f*ck?!
True Blue Jack
22-05-2007, 19:36
So, what happens at the moment? My son brings home Biff & Chip books from school which feature a bog-standard nuclear family with a mum, dad, a couple of kids and a dog. No-one in mine or my wife's immediate family is homosexual so he may never meet someone he knows to be homosexual until he is an adult. By that time he will have such a strongly-formed idea of what is 'normal', i.e., Adam & Eve not Adam & Steve, that it will be very difficult for him to come to terms with gay people - a problem that is still common in today's society.
There is a wheelchair-bound child in my son's present class, and last year there were a couple of black kids. At his age (now 5) he had no pre-conceived ideas so has accepted both as perfectly normal, if uncommon. The bottom line is that I don't see any problem with some of my son's reading books featuring homosexual partners because it is representative of today's society. Perhaps the titles could use some work - "Daddy's Roommate" sets the imagination running a bit, but in general terms, so what?
scaleywife
22-05-2007, 20:14
My kids have met 'friendly' blokes and knew what the score was without any explanation needed. I guess that at 8 and 4 (at the time) they know more than we think these days. But TBJ is right, the younger they meet anyone 'different' the more accepting they are.
The boys have asked dodgy questions at times such as 'why can't i get a suntan like you then?' but I find if you leave the person concerned to give them an answer the kids usually accept it without prejeudice (the very young child who was asked this question just said that his grandma came from a very sunny country and all his family had suntans like him)
My other favourite question was from my eldest when he was about 8. To a young SAC friend of ours, not an overly camp guy and the question of sexuality had never come up in front of the kids, out of the blue... 'so is that fella your boyfriend then' SAC replied 'uummm yes I suppose so' to which the fella in question replyed 'am I... blimey!' When they get married (or whatever you are supposed to call it) I want my eldest to be the best man!!
So, what happens at the moment? My son brings home Biff & Chip books from school which feature a bog-standard nuclear family with a mum, dad, a couple of kids and a dog. .....
.... The bottom line is that I don't see any problem with some of my son's reading books featuring homosexual partners because it is representative of today's society....
Not a good argument in my book. We have people running round with guns and drugs are now very normal in today's society. People are obsessed with celebrity status and the aspirations of winning the lottery, and all terrorists are portrayed as muslim extreamists are . All bad things in my old fasioned view. I still personnaly do not think homosexuality is normal. I will not consciously descriminate against someones sexual preference, BUT as a father i feel I have the right to express my views to my children and leave them to grow up a bit before they make there own mind up what is right and wrong.
If Biff and chip joined a gang and started shooting up the town so they could be famous and start chasing a young muslim lad cos he had a big rucksack, while mom and dad sponged off the social while watching tricia, would that be okay as it reflected todays society?
airframe doctor
22-05-2007, 22:29
I seem to remember a while ago that Little Red Riding Hood was changed(or it was suggested at least) dramatically so that kids living in inner city areas could relate to the story better. Changes included.....
The big bad wolf was renamed..........a potential offender,
The forest was renamed.............a built up area,
and other crap like that. Too much PC ****e!!!
MingMong
22-05-2007, 22:38
I do not want my kids to grow up thinking that homosexuality is normal and natural because it is not.
I would be much happier with them knowing that mummy and daddy shag to make babies and that is how it should be.
I would much rather that they learn about the correct way that things work first before their minds are screwed up with images of deviants.
There was a program on TV a week or two ago about "Can't wait to be grown up" or something like that, and it was to do with young teenage girls wanting and going for boob jobs/implants. :PDT_Xtremez_35:
Then this sort of rubbish starts getting put into schools too, with matters like Homosexuality? :raf: It's comes as no surprise that they're wanting boob jobs and other adult things before they're even anywhere near fifteen because they're being forced to 'grow up' faster, yet they don't appear to be able to psychologically mature quick enough. This is when the word STOP needs to apply. Otherwise we'll have "Grown up" five year olds roaming the streets....
sculthorpe
22-05-2007, 22:49
I saw this on the local news last night.
While I think kids need to be aware of same sex relationships, do 5 year olds need to learn it at school?
Some of the titles that the kids will be reading are: The Sissy Duckling, Hello Sailor and Daddy's Roommate.
Story here (http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=156582&command=displayContent&sourceNode=156408&contentPK=17371171&folderPk=87028&pNodeId=156139).
Pure propaganda , win their little hearts and minds.............!!
True Blue Jack
22-05-2007, 22:59
If Biff and chip joined a gang and started shooting up the town so they could be famous and start chasing a young muslim lad cos he had a big rucksack, while mom and dad sponged off the social while watching tricia, would that be okay as it reflected todays society?
The subtle difference is that homosexuality is not illegal.
I do not want my kids to grow up thinking that homosexuality is normal and natural because it is not.
I would be much happier with them knowing that mummy and daddy shag to make babies and that is how it should be.
I would much rather that they learn about the correct way that things work first before their minds are screwed up with images of deviants.
You have proved my point. We grew up in a world where homosexuality was not talked about. As a generation we still find it difficult to recognise as an acceptable way of life. I consider myself quite open-minded about these things, but even now I will not go into the toilets at work if I know the openly gay member of the Squadron is in there. There is no rationale for my actions, it is just the way I have been brought up.
Vim_Fuego
23-05-2007, 09:06
Seriousness aside I haven't stopped chuckling over the titles 'Hello Sailor' and 'daddies Room mate' since I read them on here yesterday...
It goes without saying that I wouldn't entertain this direction on either of my sons education...Some of their social awareness must come from the parents and it will at a time and delivery of my choice...It strikes me that the education services think that parents are incapable of doing anything for their children...
The Masked Geek
23-05-2007, 09:20
You have proved my point. We grew up in a world where homosexuality was not talked about. As a generation we still find it difficult to recognise as an acceptable way of life.
Not at all, acceptable ways of life are easily recognised. Some of us just choose not to listen to the propaganda.
What would happen if the whole world turned into bummers? No more humanity, is that acceptable? Or natural?
rodger-dodger
23-05-2007, 09:28
I read with intrigue,
A month or so ago, two ladies that have tied the knot moved into an FMQ the next street along, they are quite often seen out together in the street with their child playing. the kids take no notice of the fact what so ever, if anything i think the 'ADULTS' cause more harm than most by imposing their views on there own kids.:PDT_Xtremez_08:
When my children ask difficult questions, I always ask them what they think the right answer is, when they explain to us, i reply, if thats what you think then thats the answer (obviously not if their answers are way of the mark). This way I am not imposing my pre-conceived ideas onto them.:PDT_Xtremez_28:
It's a great way of doing things, and helps you understand your own childrens minds and views.
Scaley brat
23-05-2007, 09:35
Not at all, acceptable ways of life are easily recognised. Some of us just choose not to listen to the propaganda.
What would happen if the whole world turned into bummers? No more humanity, is that acceptable? Or natural?
Not a big fan of cloning then TMG ? :PDT_Xtremez_15:
Why do hommers want to shout about it all the time, for Christ sake don't they realise that thinking of their kind of love is revolting to straight men ?
I know WOMEN who are disgusted at the thought of it.
If your gay and your happy, great now go away and bum each other in private, or is your ultimate goal to be allowed to do it in public while the rest of us have to watch.
I don't want SB jnr growing up thinking it's okay to stick things in your mates bum..... the Rugby club will teach him that when he gets to 18 FFS :PDT_Xtremez_06:
rodger, nice one mate and there was me thinking you were a bigot like me :PDT_Xtremez_05:
Soon To Leave
23-05-2007, 09:49
But if it's 2 attractive lesbians most men would take part (even if only to watch) if invited.
Is a man that takes a woman 'up the wrong un' a b****r too?
Scaley brat
23-05-2007, 09:51
But if it's 2 attractive lesbians most men would take part (even if only to watch) if invited.
Is a man that takes a woman 'up the wrong un' a b****r too?
No mate, you can relax your still straight ! :PDT_Xtremez_15:
Apparently doing a bird up the wrong un is perfectly socially acceptable :PDT_Xtremez_14:
How else do you teach them the error of their ways :PDT_Xtremez_30:
The Masked Geek
23-05-2007, 09:53
Is a man that takes a woman 'up the wrong un' a b****r too?
Bummer as in Gayer.
As for lezzers, of course, the lesbianism bit is not an issue as they wouldn't be doing anything "homosexual" to the bloke involved.
True Blue Jack
23-05-2007, 18:48
I'd be very interested to learn how many of the "Homosexuality is wrong" contingent are the proud owners of some girl-on-girl Frankie. I've got loads. :PDT_Xtremez_14:
TrenchardsLoveSock
24-05-2007, 09:58
Christ, I'm starting to think that phixerBOY was right.::/:
What do you think is going to happen? Your little pride and joy coming home one day and saying "Daddy, we read Hello Sailor today. I can't wait until I'm older, then I can suck c0ck/drink from the furry cup all day!"
You can't catch "The Gay", especially not from reading books FFS. They might learn a little tolerance and acceptance though. These books are a result of people trying to give kids an alternative to going down the same old nasty bigoted road as their parents.
Admittedly, these books may be aimed at a younger audience than I would expect, and I wouldn't like to be the parent who has to field all of the inevitable questions after school, but it is probably about the same age that kids start picking up on their parents predjudices.
Bluntend
24-05-2007, 10:12
You can't catch "The Gay", especially not from reading books FFS. They might learn a little tolerance and acceptance though. These books are a result of people trying to give kids an alternative to going down the same old nasty bigoted road as their parents.
Well said.
Scaley brat
24-05-2007, 10:37
I'd be very interested to learn how many of the "Homosexuality is wrong" contingent are the proud owners of some girl-on-girl Frankie. I've got loads. :PDT_Xtremez_14:
Me too :PDT_Xtremez_30:
TLS, your still in denial. You can catch the gay and the longer you work with the navy the more likely it is to happen to you. Apparently the first thing you notice is the cut of the fabric, and you develop a taste for salty drinks ! :PDT_Xtremez_31:
You'll be buying fcuking Kylie albums next ! ::P:
Mrs_Monobrow
24-05-2007, 10:40
I agree with mo4. There is nothing wrong with ''the gays'' and im certainly not worried if my kids decided that they were gay. I will love them whatever, but they do grow up too fast these days and you dont get long as a child anyway, let them be children FFS.
There is nothing wrong in teaching kids that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality..but i do know that my 5 yr old wont understand what it means!
Maybe 6 or 7 is the age to tell them these things....but 5 is a bit young..they grow up all too fast these days by what they see on the TV..or hear from others.
Can't help but agree with you, then again at what age can you start to teach kids before their parents beliefs have already taken a hold of them?
TheHogwartsBEngO
24-05-2007, 11:16
FEngO, when he or she arrives into this world, will have two uncles that love him or her very much, that live together in Canada.
It probably means that FEnGO will have no preconcieved ideas whatsoever. Times change. Not that many years ago it was always the two old Spinster 'Sisters' in the cottage at the end of the village or the old batchelor and his friend - our society is just a little more open these days.
I remember one of the books I was given for the whole 'birds and the bees' issue called (I think) 'Peter and Pamela Grow up' talked about how it is important for Peter and Pamela to be married and for Peter to have a good job so that he can support Pamela and their children before they start a family. It was basically saying that having children before you are married is wrong.
We are happy to accept that as an old fashioned idea - so it's only natural that we should start to educate our children about other lifestyles too.
We shouldn't (and I don't intend to) pass on our prejudices to our children. But Plumber is right sometimes the little darlings pick up more than we think.
Bluntend
24-05-2007, 11:55
...the first thing you notice is the cut of the fabric, and you develop a taste for salty drinks ! :PDT_Xtremez_31:
You'll be buying fcuking Kylie albums next ! ::P:
You speaking from experience SB? :PDT_Xtremez_28:
Scaley brat
24-05-2007, 12:00
You speaking from experience SB? :PDT_Xtremez_28:
I only commented on the sharpness of the seams, however a shower in cillit bang sorted me right out :PDT_Xtremez_30:
Be warned the gay can strike at your weakest moment ! :PDT_Xtremez_15:
If you OWN a Kylie album and a Monroe film, don't ask. Yes, you love the c0ck ! :PDT_Xtremez_31:
Bluntend
24-05-2007, 12:22
I only commented on the sharpness of the seams, however a shower in cillit bang sorted me right out :PDT_Xtremez_30:
Be warned the gay can strike at your weakest moment ! :PDT_Xtremez_15:
If you OWN a Kylie album and a Monroe film, don't ask. Yes, you love the c0ck ! :PDT_Xtremez_31:
Kylie Monroe? Never heard of him...
Scaley brat
24-05-2007, 12:48
Kylie Monroe? Never heard of him...
You LOVE the c0ck ! :PDT_Xtremez_31: I bet your listening to Kylie all day dressed like Marilyn Monroe you twisted sod ! :PDT_Xtremez_15:
......
I remember one of the books I was given for the whole 'birds and the bees' issue called (I think) 'Peter and Pamela Grow up' talked about how it is important for Peter and Pamela to be married and for Peter to have a good job so that he can support Pamela and their children before they start a family. It was basically saying that having children before you are married is wrong.
We are happy to accept that as an old fashioned idea - so it's only natural that we should start to educate our children about other lifestyles too.
Thats my point! I am not happy to accept that as old fasioned, that should still be the ideal. Yes I know stuff can go bad between married couples and I know there are homosexuals around, but my issue is that kids are getting taught that it is okay, and just as normal.
Stability of a normal old fashioned family might just help with the social problems dragging our country down.
Reading the threads that have been posted so far I think people are getting a bit carried away. These books will be about loving relationships between adults, not hardcore porn fests where John and James get down and dirty.
I understand that a lot of Service people are homophobic, most of us were recruited to be so and no amount of signing for diversity pamphlets I have no intention of reading will change that. I think I am of a minority in my peer group within the Forces because I have never had a problem with homosexuality, my parents had a gay friend when I was growing up and I always knew that it wasn't for me but I never felt that this guy was any less normal than me either. Surely letting kids make their own descisions about these matters is a better way forward, after all people are born gay they don't choose it, the world can only better if people start to remember that.
True Blue Jack
24-05-2007, 21:57
Can't help but agree with you, then again at what age can you start to teach kids before their parents beliefs have already taken a hold of them?
Speaking from personal (and in hindsight, shameful, experience): When I was 7 we had a new kid start at our school, his name was Mahmood and was the first coloured kid any of us had met. We bullied crap out of him until his parents moved him to another school. It only took us half a term. It was around the same age that we started insulting the less popular kids at school by calling them "gayboy" and "homo". Maybe if we had been taught a little tolerance a couple of years earlier it would not have happened.
Kids pick up on things far more easily, and at a far younger aqe, than we give them credit for. They do not need to be told "it's OK to be gay", they just need to be made aware, on an almost subliminal level, that it is a lifestyle which exists and is acceptable. I think these books are a great way to do it.
TrenchardsLoveSock
25-05-2007, 00:29
Thats my point! I am not happy to accept that as old fasioned, that should still be the ideal. Yes I know stuff can go bad between married couples and I know there are homosexuals around, but my issue is that kids are getting taught that it is okay, and just as normal.
Stability of a normal old fashioned family might just help with the social problems dragging our country down.
Not that many normal old fashioned families these days.
A lot of same sex relationships are a hell of a lot more stable than the heterosexual Jeremy Kyle feckwits who bump uglies and then bring their kids up to be proud of their ASBOs.
A lot of same sex relationships are a hell of a lot more stable than the heterosexual Jeremy Kyle feckwits who bump uglies and then bring their kids up to be proud of their ASBOs.
15 Hours Ago 19:57
I am not against same sex relationships, just the blanket teaching of it to those that may never come accross one.
I agree and would have no problem with books about such families showing how deprived the kids turn out and how daft they look in their chav uniforms. How, if the kids put a bit of effort in could be smarter than their parents (if they know who they are)
I am not against same sex relationships, just the blanket teaching of it to those that may never come accross one.
I would also ban the kyle type shows that somehow seem to give the type credability and replace them with the boring school programs we used to have, at least that would either teach the layabouts something or get them out the house?
Comms_Lad
25-05-2007, 14:03
I think we are all missing the big picture here, forget about the subject of the books and ask the question will the kids learn anything in school if all schools are worried about are being politically correct (gonna cillit bang my fingers for typing that) and fluffy bunny.
Ffs they are kids let them learn and play at the same time. Teach them things that will be useful, hell just teach them.
I dont mind what my boys read (ages 5 and 2) as long as they can read, I was reading Stephen King at the age of 8 (The Stand what a book) and I managed to not grow up into a complete psychotic weirdo, so why would reading about gays make kids gay????
I also believe if the teachers are going to read these books or let the kids read these books they should be prepared to answer questions as well as the parents and that the parents should be given the choice of whether they want their children to be reading these books.
That last point is to allow parents some responsibility for their own kids education as a lot of parents believe that schools should be the teachers and are quick to blame when their kids do something wrong. The government is also trying to tell parents what they believe their kids should learn and thats not right.
Sorry this was a long post and I hope it makes sense lol
p.s. my 5yr old read me a story the other night and I was chuffed to bits because he read it didnt ask for any help on any words and he enjoys reading i dont need to ask for anything more.(there were no gays in this one though lol)
Reading the threads that have been posted so far I think people are getting a bit carried away. These books will be about loving relationships between adults, not hardcore porn fests where John and James get down and dirty.
I understand that a lot of Service people are homophobic, most of us were recruited to be so and no amount of signing for diversity pamphlets I have no intention of reading will change that. I think I am of a minority in my peer group within the Forces because I have never had a problem with homosexuality, my parents had a gay friend when I was growing up and I always knew that it wasn't for me but I never felt that this guy was any less normal than me either. Surely letting kids make their own descisions about these matters is a better way forward, after all people are born gay they don't choose it, the world can only better if people start to remember that.
The latest research points to the fact that from the age of 18 months and upward kids can be indoctrinated into certain 'lifestyle' types. People are very rarely born gay, it is now being shown that experiences whilst growing up can and will sway them.
My kids are a bit older and they both know what a homosexual or a lesbian are, they also understand that whilst these people are human beings and should be treated as such they are not NORMAL. The whole purpose of the urge to have sex is to procreate. Doesn't matter how long or how often homosexuals/lesbians have sex they will never procreate. It's not a natural act full stop.
True Blue Jack
25-05-2007, 17:57
That last point is to allow parents some responsibility for their own kids education as a lot of parents believe that schools should be the teachers and are quick to blame when their kids do something wrong. The government is also trying to tell parents what they believe their kids should learn and thats not right.
I couldn't agree with you more. I have friends with the view that school is the place for learning and will rant on for hours about why it is not their job to read with their kids at home, etc. I sometimes go too far the other way and once had an argument with my daughter's teacher over how she was taught to add columns of numbers. I also told the headteacher that I was not going to 'ask his permission' to take my kids on holiday during term-time because they would learn more at our holiday destination than in the classroom. (We went to Disneyland Paris but I ddn't tell him that until afterwards!)
I do, however, believe that Government has a role to play in deciding how our kids are educated. The principle of the National Curriculum is sound, but it still needs some work. Personally I would like to see a little less emphasis on algebra, Shakespeare and the Periodic Table and the gap created filled with lessons in life-skills, e.g., how to get a job, how to balance a household budget, responsibilities of parenthood, etc.
Boarderlyne
25-05-2007, 21:11
As a parent, this is a difficult thread to reply to (but then again most of the posters have been parents so I will have a go).
I think that the age aspect is the most difficult thing for most of us to get over. 5 is a bit young to even think about how babies get into the world without going into details about other ways of living. But that said, any idea of improving tolerance has to be good. I do my best not to inflict any of my prejudices onto my kids and I hope that they will be better people than I was. I was lucky in the fact that I never realised that my dad had an irrational dislike of blacks. I was in my late 20's when he said that he never trusted a black person. I was gobsmacked. So I was lucky that my parents never tried to imprint their ideas in that manner onto me or my brothers.
That idea of non-imposal of ideas went across the spectrum. I have never had a drama with anyone that was gay. In fact, my best mate at college was gay and we had a great time. He could pick all the blokes and I would pick all the girls. Perfect distribution. :PDT_Xtremez_30:
The problem is that people seem to think that being gay or pro-gay is an attitude that can be programmed into young minds. It can't. Kids minds sift through everything and reject things that don't make sense to them. Kids will read these books and come home and ask Mum and Dad questions. The usual will be "Dad, why have you not got a boyfriend?" Stock answer is "Daddy doesn't like boys that way". "Ah right. Why?" will be the next line.
And then you explain things in terms that they understand and off they go to watch their DVD or to play with the current favourite toy more than happy that Dad 'knows' how good they are doing/being in school.
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