View Full Version : Police officer ordered from court
A police officer was asked to leave a court because he was wearing his full uniform, including body armour, baton and handcuffs.
The incident took place at Mold Crown Court during a sentencing.
Judge John Rogers QC saw the officer at the side of the room and said: "You can't come to court dressed like that. Will you please leave."
North Wales Police said operational uniform should be worn on operational duties, including attendance in court.
The officer had been due to give evidence at the trial, but was no longer needed and was sitting at the side of the chamber to await the sentence.
When the judge came into court, he saw the officer, and asked him: "Why are you wearing all that equipment?"
The officer replied that it was his work dress, but was asked to leave. He apologised and left the court immediately.
A North Wales Police spokesman said a force policy was in place.
"Operational uniform should be worn when on operational duties, including attendance at court,"
Mrs_Monobrow
22-05-2007, 15:24
How bloody stupid!
Whats the betting the judge says some rubbish about it being ''his court room'' blah blah blah!
AllWoman
22-05-2007, 15:27
Its bl00dy ridiculous!!!!
I wonder who they would be calling if someone got out of hand and the court bailiffs couldn't handle it????
Would they then say please come and help but leave your baton and handcuffs outside??? I don't think so!!
If he is on duty then I can see nothing wrong in him wearing that gear, especially if he is expected to go back on the beat afterwards so to speak. Next we will have police attending court in civiy clothes and then having to change to go back to work FFS.
Fraid I disagree.
There is a time and place for different types of uniform and when a policeman is in the public eye, in court, he should wear what is appropriate.
When in court, a 'normal' person would at least make a little effort and not turn up in his 'working' dress.
I think the Judge would also be right in removing a barrister that is inappropriately dressed. In fact I know of one that has actually done it to a scruffily dressed barrister.
You would not really turn up to court in your overalls would you?... and no it isn't 'different' 'cause he's a copper.
I don't think there really is any situation where one PC is so invaluable that he needs to wear his stab vests etc. for all the time he is at work, 'just in case!'.
The Judges are well within their rights to maintain standards, as they see fit, and IMHO, I think they should too. Too many people are slacking in discipline and standards nowadays, and it should be the 'authority' figures that should keep the benchmark.
Good for the PC for apologising and I bet he makes a little effort in future.
D
AllWoman
22-05-2007, 16:09
I agree with you to some extent dantura but as he was following his force's policy on dress its a little harsh!!
Maybe its time the courts and the police liaised and agreed on what is and is not appropriate!!
Maybe its time the courts and the police liaised and agreed on what is and is not appropriate!!
When I done my jury service at Snaresbrook in London, the Court had a couple of officers that were based within the building without the stab vests etc. I guess those days are long gone now.
... as he was following his force's policy on dress its a little harsh!!
Maybe its time the courts and the police liaised and agreed on what is and is not appropriate!!
Good point, I think the fault may have been with the court usher , who should have let the PC know.
Also Judges are known to have an off day and taken it out on anyone who's around.
I still think there should be the highest of standards from public figures.
D
Also Judges are known to have an off day and taken it out on anyone who's around.
D
My In law is one, your not wrong there, moody git! :PDT_Xtremez_31:
My In law is one, your not wrong there, moody git! :PDT_Xtremez_31:
My Mrs got a right earful off one a short while ago for nothing at all.
Then a few weeks ago, when she saw him in her Inn he apologised unreservedly and said he was having a bit of an off day. Didn't help her at the time though!
Law unto themselves sometimes, but I still know a few interesting, nice old codgers, and it is a bloody tough job, which I wouldn't like.
D
Dave-exfairy
22-05-2007, 18:17
North Wales Police no longer look like Police Officers, they look like SWAT teams and that includes beat officers. Operational uniform is a black lycra t shirt, black combat trousers and a baseball cap, yes, a baseball cap.
A female Police Officer had the audacity to turn up to the local Rememberance Day Parade in Hawarden and lay a wreath on behalf of NWP wearing a black fleece, body armour and full belt kit, she looked like a bag of sh1t, she could have at least taken off the armour and belt kit. Not so long agfo they wore No 1's to parades like that.
In my force, we give evidence in shirt tie and jersey, but only wear body armour and beltkit if we are on duty within the court room as court officer. I fully agree that we have standards to keep, but on the flip side, if there is no secure place to stow your kit, you are as well to wear it.
, but on the flip side, if there is no secure place to stow your kit, you are as well to wear it.
This is the issue as your crystaline solid in a MBIK solution spray is classed as a section 5 firearm, and you dont want to be leaving that around unsecured!.
exactly, as it's covered by setion 5 of the firearms act we are not allowed to carry it into prisons or onto aircraft. It has to be kept under lock and key when not used, even within a manned police station
If I'm giving evidence I do it in a shirt and tie. There are occasions when we give evidence in full kit, but it's very rare. Our courts don't mind belt kit on, but I wouldn't give evidence in my tac vest !
If someone kicks off in court we let the duty shift sort it out, plus the court has it's own security.
Here in good ol Germany the police give evidence in Court wearing civvies, and most of them look pretty gash. The Court Officers wear normal uniform, but then German Courts are fairly laid back compared to ours.:PDT_Xtremez_40:
Defender of the universe
27-05-2007, 02:43
AHHH well the judge made his decision and that was final, but some how I cant help thinking that perhaps he may have made the wrong decision to persecute a cop for wearing his uniform that he wears on a day to day basis.
Bluntend
27-05-2007, 06:31
AHHH well the judge made his decision and that was final, but some how I cant help thinking that perhaps he may have made the wrong decision to persecute a cop for wearing his uniform that he wears on a day to day basis.
True, but if you were to attend a Courts Marshall, for example, you wouldn't do it in you overalls, DPMs or even No.2s.
Its more likely that this is one of those occasions where the judge was being a bit pedantic and the PC, in all honesty should perhaps have checked the body armour at the door. If there was a genuine need for body armour, I'm sure the judge would have recognised that.
Perhaps in the judge's view, having a PC tooled to the hilt may have put people on edge. Security is one thing but removing a policeman who could be coming across as heavy handed and intimidating to people involved in the case was maybe best for everyone concerned. Just a thought.
True, but if you were to attend a Courts Marshall, for example, you wouldn't do it in you overalls, DPMs or even No.2s
With respect mate, you're comparing apples and pears. Court marshalls are are more like crown court, where things are very formal and no police officer would wear anything but smart kit.
Also, lots of forces now, inc the one I'm in don't issue dress uniform. So all I have is shirt tie and fleece and trousers. I still have my old No1 shoes though.
Security is one thing but removing a policeman who could be coming across as heavy handed and intimidating to people involved in the case was maybe best for everyone
When you are giving evidence, you want to be anything but intimidating.
For all we know the guy was never told he was giving evidence that day and was at work as normal. In those circumstances you would just apologise to the magistrate and explain whats happened.
Bluntend
27-05-2007, 10:52
For all we know the guy was never told he was giving evidence that day and was at work as normal. In those circumstances you would just apologise to the magistrate and explain whats happened.
Which is pretty much how it was reported so a bit of a non-issue really. If I invite somebody to my office and I send him away because, in my opinion he's incorrectly dressed, that's hardly headline news, but how different is it from this story? For whatever reason the judge felt this PC was dressed inappropriately and so asked him to leave. The copper, appologised and left. End of. I'm afraid I can't see any political correctness going mad here, just muppet journos trying to find a story where this is none.
Good link by the way.
Yup, I interpret it exactly the same....a slow news day.
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