Chf Clks Conference - Any White Smoke?

[Triple SA]

Anybody go/know someone who went? If so, what is the gen?

[MyShineyAr$e]

Rumour at the moment but whispers I heard from a FS clk here:

Freeze on drafting of clks into non-trade specific posts.

Proposed recall of those personnel not in a trade specific post.

[Humble Scribe]

Just about sobered up from the evening function (followed by another last night!) and things are slowly coming back to me.

The stuff you want to know about the trade:

DACOS A1 should be a fecking politician as he repeatedly failed to answer the specific questions about the trade. Complete and utter cop out despite previous reassurances that we would find out at the APC. OK so the decisions have not been made yet however they have sent recommendations to COS Pers but failed to tell us what those recommendations were. No hints, nothing - complete & utter wash-out!! Get a grip FLWO!!

There will be a future for the trade with a ceiling of 1377 shineys. Ideal 'pyramid' will be 600 (410 current) AC, 357 (425) Cpl, 219 (435) Sgt, 125 (125) FS, 76(95) WO. Yeah how likely is it that we can recruit 600 AC's and retain them? No fecking chance!!

The 'SAMA Ops' manager posts that were disestablished on intro of JPA will be brought back under the guise of Standards SNCO's. Ideal PMS structure will be shortly publicised in 3392 or 3376.

JPA:

Not a great deal new really. Best news is that from 1 May 07, there will be a flat rate £5.00/Night for IE no receipts, no questions, no problems - good decision.

Understanding of the problems that we face in HR and slowly working out fixes. When Navy/Army fully up to speed more should be done to rectify problem areas.

E-Learning package very good. Tried it today from 'Splach' screen log-in and tells you what you need to know rather than looking in Desk top manuals. You don't have to do the complete E-Learning package just pick the area you want to know.

Manning:

DACOS Manning understood the problems due to lack of known TG 17 future. Currently looking at FMDL at each rank level - decision soon.

Didn't really learn a lot more. Lots of Studies underway but isn't there always? All in all a rather disappointing Conference but should I have expected anymore?

[SgtScribbly]

Ideal 'pyramid' will be 600 (410 current) AC, 357 (425) Cpl, 219 (435) Sgt, 125 (125) FS, 76(95) WO.

Plenty of deadwood at Sgt to get rid of then,

[True Blue Jack]

Plenty of deadwood at Sgt to get rid of then,

Not good news for Cpls looking to get promoted then (I had a hot tip this week that the quota is 25, but the reinstated SAMA Ops posts may improve that, if it is effected quickly).

[Boarderlyne]

Not good news for Cpls looking to get promoted then (I had a hot tip this week that the quota is 25, but the reinstated SAMA Ops posts may improve that, if it is effected quickly).

And the field size is 350! To put it honestly, as TG17, we are hooped! It's back to the bad old days of the 90's when the PSB were looking for 10 to promote when there were 400 in the groove and of that group, most were on Spec Recs for a few years.

[Humble Scribe]

And the field size is 350! To put it honestly, as TG17, we are hooped! It's back to the bad old days of the 90's when the PSB were looking for 10 to promote when there were 400 in the groove and of that group, most were on Spec Recs for a few years.

DACOS Manning 3 acknowleged the mistakes of the past and promised that they wouldn't be a repeat. I think this is why they're looking at FMDL at each rank level and they fully appreciate that they have got to promote people to maintain morale. I took the opportunity to speak with our desk and they are completely frustrated with the lack of direction received about the future; we'll have to wait a few more months to hear what's going on.

[True Blue Jack]

There will be a future for the trade with a ceiling of 1377 shineys. Ideal 'pyramid' will be 600 (410 current) AC, 357 (425) Cpl, 219 (435) Sgt, 125 (125) FS, 76(95) WO. Yeah how likely is it that we can recruit 600 AC's and retain them? No fecking chance!!

I've been having a little think about that pyramid and how it will apply to my unit. I think the only we could do it would be to disestablish/downgrade the Sqn Adj posts, which frankly would be a disaster. The registries tend to get dumped on by the aircrew, and are not entirely loved by the groundcrew as it is, and that's if you have a strong-willed SNCO running the place.

[Woodja]

I've been having a little think about that pyramid and how it will apply to my unit. I think the only we could do it would be to disestablish/downgrade the Sqn Adj posts, which frankly would be a disaster. The registries tend to get dumped on by the aircrew, and are not entirely loved by the groundcrew as it is, and that's if you have a strong-willed SNCO running the place.

Got a nasty suspicion that we are gonna lose the SNCO emabassy posts.

Oh, and is this where you have been spending all your work time *****?

[True Blue Jack]

Got a nasty suspicion that we are gonna lose the SNCO emabassy posts.

Oh, and is this where you have been spending all your work time *****?

Cheeky fecker! :PDT_Xtremez_28: Check the times of day that I post stuff - all outside work time.

I suppose we (royal) could make the Embassy posts available to any trade, but in fairness we don't have 200 sgt posts in Embassies so that would still leave a lot of posts to downgrade/disestablish/civilianise elsewhere. Even if we downgrade Sqn Adj posts and some of the drafters we are still overborne. And according to the 'ideal pyramid' we are already 65-70 cpls over the top. I don't see how we can reduce to 219 sgts without gutting the trade.

[SirSaltyHelmet]

How about putting Trade SNCOs on their respective drafting desks?

[Gillo]

Cheeky fecker! :PDT_Xtremez_28: Check the times of day that I post stuff - all outside work time.

And according to the 'ideal pyramid' we are already 65-70 cpls over the top. I don't see how we can reduce to 219 sgts without gutting the trade.

What a shame but what about everyone else who has been cut to the bone. You human resources lot should have seen it coming, after all the list is not new:
Chippies, Mess managers, kennel maids, Flt Sim, Comcen etc etc etc.

Wait until you lot start applying leaning, contractualisation, quality measures and so on. You make my heart bleed, not a lot. The walls of handbrake house are falling down, oh dear never mind.

PS How many useless Admin Officers go??????????????????????

[Humble Scribe]

There is a seperate review by the FCO of the service posts so I expect that that would have some bearing on the amount of SNCO's required. As I said, this was only put forward as an 'Ideal' pyramid and I, for the life of me, cannot see how this will be achieved. Sec Sponsor (whose new title, I can't remember) was confident in his proposals though!

[dodgysootie]

Does anyone know if the "rumour" that techy postings from Kinloss are frozen is true?

[Triple SA]

Just how do you get rid of over 200 sgts? Another redundancy round? - is there any money for that (even though the payouts have now been reduced)? Hope that if you treat people poorly enough that they'll just leave?

As to the earlier post of putting other trades in charge of drafting their own, I suspect that when ACOS Manning (nee PMA6 et al) moves to HW there will not be as much opposition to that as their might have been had it remained at Innsworth.

[True Blue Jack]

What a shame but what about everyone else who has been cut to the bone. You human resources lot should have seen it coming, after all the list is not new:
Chippies, Mess managers, kennel maids, Flt Sim, Comcen etc etc etc.

Wait until you lot start applying leaning, contractualisation, quality measures and so on. You make my heart bleed, not a lot. The walls of handbrake house are falling down, oh dear never mind.

PS How many useless Admin Officers go??????????????????????

We did see it coming, that doesn't mean we have to like it. We can all agree that civilianisation/contractualisation has gone too far in recent years (look at how often drivers, chefs & MT fitters go OOA). Simulator Techs are another great example. Some mates of mine are now doing the same job they did in uniform, for more money and zero bull$hit. Commcen has been made effectively redundant by the advent of e-mail, and the TG11 sponsor did a fantastic job of protecting his trade by coming up with the concept of TG4. I wish our trade sponsor was so adept.

What others and I have said is that we cannot see how we can re-organise the pyramid as has been suggested. The emphasis now is on individuals taking greater control over their personal admin, but that has (slightly) lessened the load on SAC PD clerks, not on the management. In an increasingly 'expeditionary' Air Force the reliance on deployed admin is greater than ever. Everything to do with setting up and maintaining a DOB involves an admin function somewhere along the line, whether it be transport in and out of theatre, infrastructure management, welfare provision, reviewing manpower levels, payment of allowances, cashier services, the list goes on. This increases, not lessens, the demand for SNCOs.


How about putting Trade SNCOs on their respective drafting desks?

It's an idea that crops up every now and again and dies shortly after the relevant trade sponsor takes a visit to ACOS Manning.

[Forestfan]

How about putting Trade SNCOs on their respective drafting desks?

In reality mate I don't see what that would achieve? Still gotta work to a policy, and try to put pegs in holes around the RAF? A bit of trade knowledge may help, but I daresay the drafters hands are pretty tied anyway.

Not that I suggest they always get it right.

FF

[Gillo]

[QUOTE=True Blue Jack;101382]We did see it coming, that doesn't mean we have to like it. We can all agree that civilianisation/contractualisation has gone too far in recent years (look at how often drivers, chefs & MT fitters go OOA). Simulator Techs are another great example. Some mates of mine are now doing the same job they did in uniform, for more money and zero bull$hit. Commcen has been made effectively redundant by the advent of e-mail, and the TG11 sponsor did a fantastic job of protecting his trade by coming up with the concept of TG4. I wish our trade sponsor was so adept.

What others and I have said is that we cannot see how we can re-organise the pyramid as has been suggested. The emphasis now is on individuals taking greater control over their personal admin, but that has (slightly) lessened the load on SAC PD clerks, not on the management. In an increasingly 'expeditionary' Air Force the reliance on deployed admin is greater than ever. Everything to do with setting up and maintaining a DOB involves an admin function somewhere along the line, whether it be transport in and out of theatre, infrastructure management, welfare provision, reviewing manpower levels, payment of allowances, cashier services, the list goes on. This increases, not lessens, the demand for SNCOs.


Nice job of justifying yourself on Ops (Adj Gen Corp) so how many Admin Officers do you need to act as Cashier/Welfare Officer then. Lets start cutting from the top i say

[Boarderlyne]

[QUOTE=True Blue Jack;101382]We did see it coming, that doesn't mean we have to like it. We can all agree that civilianisation/contractualisation has gone too far in recent years (look at how often drivers, chefs & MT fitters go OOA). Simulator Techs are another great example. Some mates of mine are now doing the same job they did in uniform, for more money and zero bull$hit. Commcen has been made effectively redundant by the advent of e-mail, and the TG11 sponsor did a fantastic job of protecting his trade by coming up with the concept of TG4. I wish our trade sponsor was so adept.

What others and I have said is that we cannot see how we can re-organise the pyramid as has been suggested. The emphasis now is on individuals taking greater control over their personal admin, but that has (slightly) lessened the load on SAC PD clerks, not on the management. In an increasingly 'expeditionary' Air Force the reliance on deployed admin is greater than ever. Everything to do with setting up and maintaining a DOB involves an admin function somewhere along the line, whether it be transport in and out of theatre, infrastructure management, welfare provision, reviewing manpower levels, payment of allowances, cashier services, the list goes on. This increases, not lessens, the demand for SNCOs.


Nice job of justifying yourself on Ops (Adj Gen Corp) so how many Admin Officers do you need to act as Cashier/Welfare Officer then. Lets start cutting from the top i say

Off Topic Off Topic Ours in not the only trade that is top heavy, look at Engineering, Medical, Supply and the rest. if you want to start culling then look across the board, not just narrow in on one trade. We need to be supporting each other, not looking at reasons to slag others trades off. This 'divide and rule' mentality is what allowed the bean-counters to steal so much from the budgets of the Forces to pay for yet another chav estate or latest 'empowerment' farce from Labour HQ. Off Topic Off Topic

Meanwhile, back to the thread! :PDT_Xtremez_28:

[Reformed Scribbly]

"Nice job of justifying yourself on Ops (Adj Gen Corp) so how many Admin Officers do you need to act as Cashier/Welfare Officer then. Lets start cutting from the top i say" - Gillo

Explain to me who could do my job as well as me as well as another role and I will happily go.

[Blonde Bitch]

Just how do you get rid of over 200 sgts? Another redundancy round? - is there any money for that (even though the payouts have now been reduced)? Hope that if you treat people poorly enough that they'll just leave?

As to the earlier post of putting other trades in charge of drafting their own, I suspect that when ACOS Manning (nee PMA6 et al) moves to HW there will not be as much opposition to that as their might have been had it remained at Innsworth.

The move of ACOS Manning to RAF High Wycombe is no different to any other unit move and as other units have shown the personnel involved will continue to provide a professional service despite the location whether they want to be there or not. This will not have an impact on whether other trades will draft their own personnel. This has been discussed many times and the final decision has always been that TG17 are best placed to do this. The alternative as far as I can see is for us to follow the Army route and be drafted by civilians. I know what I would rather have and it involves a blue suit.

[Triple SA]

The move of ACOS Manning to RAF High Wycombe is no different to any other unit move and as other units have shown the personnel involved will continue to provide a professional service despite the location whether they want to be there or not.

I have absolutely no doubt that this will be the case.

This has been discussed many times and the final decision has always been that TG17 are best placed to do this.

My, admitedly flippant, comment was that there is unlikely to be the same amount of opposition from those who have been lucky enough to spend susbtantial periods of their careers located in the same geographic area (Hereford, Innsworth, Brize etc). I know that others do the same (RAF Lincolnshire etc), but, to an outsider, they do not have as much influence over achieving their preference of posting as Innsworth based personnel do.

As to whether being posted by a civvy or a servicenman would be better, at least us non-PMA types would stand a fair chance of getting 'gucci' overseas postings (joke -well sort of).

Anyway, must repeat 5 times-a-day " there is no TG17 mafia, there is no TG17 mafia".

[Mug?]

Have read the ACOS brief- all sounds very bleak for you and obviously us as your customers (? does that mean we are always right now ?) does that mean the two hour lunch breaks are out the window..(joke don't DWR me!!)

Off Topic if the guy on the desk knew the role you can fit the guys to the jobs.
My trade (TG3) have radar guys in IT slots and airfield guys off to satcomm areas, maybe on aircraft a bit more obvious. But even they seem to be swapping roles now they are muli skilled.
Areas of choice is important to us and needs to be managed, but the type of jobs we do are so varied we are better specialising a bit, and yes we can adapt and be trained to the new job but why waste the money and experience.

The number of times I have spoken to people that spend an OOA (or a posting) doing a job they have never done (or wanted to do) while I go away doing there job that I have never done is unbelievable.

Jack of all trades but very few masters left.....shame....rant over sorry

[Humble Scribe]

As to whether being posted by a civvy or a servicenman would be better, at least us non-PMA types would stand a fair chance of getting 'gucci' overseas postings (joke -well sort of).

Anyway, must repeat 5 times-a-day " there is no TG17 mafia, there is no TG17 mafia".

Of course there is a PMA Mafia and even they (secretly) admit that is true but it is not an exclusive club and anyone can join - you only have to ask. You can't really sit in RAF Scotland or Lincolnshire etc and complain about them if you haven't ever volunteered to do the job and 'infiltrate' the Mafia.

I have been 'lucky' enough to be posted to Inns twice in my career but have never been part of the mafia - honestly!! I have also been fortunate enough to be offered a Gucci posting to Ramstein but only because nobody else volunteered and it was trawled twice!!

You can see my point here! OK not everyone fancies doing the CM job's but, in the main, they do a fairly good job and the rest of us shouldn't complain unless we have at least tried it. I suspect that many of the faces will be changing with the move along the A40; lets see if anything changes with some new blood.

[Shinyscot]

Just had to remind everyone about your gucci posting didn't you!

[Triple SA]

OK not everyone fancies doing the CM job's but, in the main, they do a fairly good job and the rest of us shouldn't complain unless we have at least tried it.

I agree that they do a good job - and have already said that I have no doubt that they will continue to provide a 'professional service'. But the fact that I have never wanted to be a CM does not mean that I cannot gripe about the perception that the playing field does not seem level when it comes to 'gucci' overseas jobs, getting your first choice of posting, and even a better chance of promotion. (personally i doubt that the last bit is true). I have never wanted to be a politician or a member of a boy band, but you should hear me griping about them!

Not sure what the stats are, but would be interested to see the % of tg17 based in Embassies and 'gucci' overseas postings (not really including NWE or Cyprus) that are ex PMA, factoring in how many applied and which Units they came from. Also the ratio of those getting promoted from sgt onwards would be interesting, realising of course that as there are so many TG17 at PMA, it may seem to be skewed in their favour. But I know that it is not possible, we haven't got the manpower to waste time doing it and it would serve little purpose, except to silence whinging funkers like me.

[Humble Scribe]

Not sure what the stats are, but would be interested to see the % of tg17 based in Embassies and 'gucci' overseas postings (not really including NWE or Cyprus) that are ex PMA, factoring in how many applied and which Units they came from.

I agree it would be very interesting and perhaps an external selection body, on the lines of a promotion board, would be a fairer way of selecting those to go forward to interview. I further believe that, under the new 'volunteer' system, ACOS Manning should publish the number of volunteers they had for each post and the seniority of the individual selected; at the moment you don't even get told if you've not been selected FFS!

Also the ratio of those getting promoted from sgt onwards would be interesting, realising of course that as there are so many TG17 at PMA, it may seem to be skewed in their favour.

Another bug-bear of mine! Understandably there are more PMA Sgts getting promoted as there are more of them but the RO's obviously know what it takes to get someone promoted and uses that in their favour. I'm told that being a CM gives you a higher profile on a PSB but why should it be any different from, say, a SNCO PSF? Told you I wasn't Mafia!

[Humble Scribe]

Just had to remind everyone about your gucci posting didn't you!

Off Topic Well you were only getting it from one barrel today instead of the normal two!!

[SirSaltyHelmet]

I agree that they do a good job - and have already said that I have no doubt that they will continue to provide a 'professional service'. But the fact that I have never wanted to be a CM does not mean that I cannot gripe about the perception that the playing field does not seem level when it comes to 'gucci' overseas jobs, getting your first choice of posting, and even a better chance of promotion. (personally i doubt that the last bit is true). I have never wanted to be a politician or a member of a boy band, but you should hear me griping about them!

Not sure what the stats are, but would be interested to see the % of tg17 based in Embassies and 'gucci' overseas postings (not really including NWE or Cyprus) that are ex PMA, factoring in how many applied and which Units they came from. Also the ratio of those getting promoted from sgt onwards would be interesting, realising of course that as there are so many TG17 at PMA, it may seem to be skewed in their favour. But I know that it is not possible, we haven't got the manpower to waste time doing it and it would serve little purpose, except to silence whinging funkers like me.

Try the Freedom of Information Act.. That would keep someone busy!

My drafter is great!!!

[KingGuin]

Not sure what the stats are, but would be interested to see the % of tg17 based in Embassies and 'gucci' overseas postings (not really including NWE or Cyprus) that are ex PMA, factoring in how many applied and which Units they came from. Also the ratio of those getting promoted from sgt onwards would be interesting, realising of course that as there are so many TG17 at PMA, it may seem to be skewed in their favour. But I know that it is not possible, we haven't got the manpower to waste time doing it and it would serve little purpose, except to silence whinging funkers like me.

When I left PMA to go overseas (and only then because I was at No1 on the list after 10 years) the % of TG17 Sgts at Innsworth was between 40-45% of the TG in total. I am sure that 7 years on the numbers must be fairly similar thus it should come as no surprise to see so many feature on PSL etc.

[True Blue Jack]

When I left PMA to go overseas (and only then because I was at No1 on the list after 10 years) the % of TG17 Sgts at Innsworth was between 40-45% of the TG in total. I am sure that 7 years on the numbers must be fairly similar thus it should come as no surprise to see so many feature on PSL etc.

Just to back up KG, when you consider the number of TG17 sgts at PMA it's gonna be kind of difficult to stand out from the crowd. The last 2 sgt-FS prom boards appear to have strongly favoured people with recent PSF experience, presumably because they're the ones with most to offer the JPA transition - on paper at least.

[tommo9999]

As an ex-drafter I can see why people accuse PMA of running a "Mafia". However, it is simply a case of those pers who wanted to go to Innsworth generally got there because so many tried to avoid the place. The ratio of those selected for "Gucci" tours will always seem a little out of kilter because of the number of TG17 who are at Innsworth, or have served there. And of course, Innsworth is not just about drafters, there are (or were) a number of other areas where TG17 were employed (AIS22, AFPAA, HQPTC etc etc). Lets hope the umber of vols for drafting increases with the move to High Wycombe.

[True Blue Jack]

Lets hope the umber of vols for drafting increases with the move to High Wycombe.

Now you know that won't happen. I know a number of ex-drafters who would love to go back to it (preferably as a FS) but really don't want to go to HW. I wouldn't mind betting you're one of those.:PDT_Xtremez_26:

[tommo9999]

Fair enough, I wouldn't want to go back as a Sgt because I've been there, done that etc etc. I would go back as a FS (Unlikely I know!!), although Wycombe wouldn't be my first AOC by any stretch.

[KingGuin]

I've had 3 tours since I left PMA; each time I 've moved I've been asked if I wanted to go back. To date I have never been tempted. However I loved the job but found it quite a strange environment and often wondered if it was just me? Mind you if I ever reach the dizzy hiegihts of WO I could be tempted back as Godfather!!!!

[Blonde Bitch]

Another bug-bear of mine! Understandably there are more PMA Sgts getting promoted as there are more of them but the RO's obviously know what it takes to get someone promoted and uses that in their favour. I'm told that being a CM gives you a higher profile on a PSB but why should it be any different from, say, a SNCO PSF? Told you I wasn't Mafia!

Really Humble Scribe, you are quite incorrect here with regards to the promotion board as the recent one has proven. Being a CM does not give you a higher profile it seems SNCO PSF is the job to have.

[Humble Scribe]

Really Humble Scribe, you are quite incorrect here with regards to the promotion board as the recent one has proven. Being a CM does not give you a higher profile it seems SNCO PSF is the job to have.

BB, I think you'll find I'm actually quite correct as you well know! I was well behind the CM's on the board. You should have known that being on the p!ss with them last weekend!!

[tommo9999]

No, you were behind some CMs, and in front of quite a few more.

[Humble Scribe]

No, you were behind some CMs, and in front of quite a few more.

Don't you fecking start! You're an Ex-CM anyway, that doesn't count! I'm also onto BB's ID, just waiting for her to bite!

[Seymour Tw@tt]

Not sure what the stats are, but would be interested to see the % of tg17 based in Embassies and 'gucci' overseas postings (not really including NWE or Cyprus) that are ex PMA, factoring in how many applied and which Units they came from.

Too f*cking many IMHO - and i've yet to see a TG17 SNCO who has bothered to learn the bloody language for the country they're working in.

I knew of a waffy sgt who had had about 4 or 5 embassy jobs, fcuk knows how cos she was thick as pigsh!t. Couldn't be assed to learn the language which gets my goat when there are non-TG17 ers who would do the job 100 times better...

What goes around comes around, shineys... 'fraid there won't be many damp eyes outside Handbrake Houses....

:raf:

[Blonde Bitch]

BB, I think you'll find I'm actually quite correct as you well know! I was well behind the CM's on the board. You should have known that being on the p!ss with them last weekend!!

Humble Scribe you did make me giggle. You are actually quite INCORRECT in relation to your original post. Being a CM does not give you are higher profile on the promotion board which was in fact your original point. Whatever your position was/is in relation to CM that featured on the board as our delightfull Tommo9999 rightly says you would of been below some and above others. The same as a lot of other people ex CM included. Hope I bite hard enough.

[Humble Scribe]

Humble Scribe you did make me giggle. You are actually quite INCORRECT in relation to your original post. Being a CM does not give you are higher profile on the promotion board which was in fact your original point. Whatever your position was/is in relation to CM that featured on the board as our delightfull Tommo9999 rightly says you would of been below some and above others. The same as a lot of other people ex CM included. Hope I bite hard enough.

BB, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one! I have it on good authority that being a CM is held in high regard by a PSB, as I guess is a SNCO PSF.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not a CM basher. As I've said in many a post they do a very hard job very well although a little more understanding of what those of us at the 'coal face' have to deal with wouldn't go amiss IMHO; I guess they may say the same of us. I just believe that, rightly or wrongly, the dice are stacked in their favour more often than not.

[True Blue Jack]

BB, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one! I have it on good authority that being a CM is held in high regard by a PSB, as I guess is a SNCO PSF.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not a CM basher. As I've said in many a post they do a very hard job very well although a little more understanding of what those of us at the 'coal face' have to deal with wouldn't go amiss IMHO; I guess they may say the same of us. I just believe that, rightly or wrongly, the dice are stacked in their favour more often than not.

I know of one ex-CM in particular who has all the ticks in the boxes including straight Spec Recs, all the right secondary duties, and incidentally is a damn good clerk. He is behind a lot of PSF-types on the PSL. Sorry HS, but the evidence doesn't back up your argument.

[Humble Scribe]

I know of one ex-CM in particular who has all the ticks in the boxes including straight Spec Recs, all the right secondary duties, and incidentally is a damn good clerk. He is behind a lot of PSF-types on the PSL. Sorry HS, but the evidence doesn't back up your argument.

Fair point but that is just one case and I can point out many a TG17 SNCO (as could you) in the same boat. You are also assuming that I'm talking about the Sgt - FS prom board; whilst that was the basis of my initial comments, it could apply equally to FS - WO.

I look at it this way, if my 1st RO wanted to know what to write in my SJAR to get me promoted, he wouldn't have any indications of what the boards are looking for. A CM's 1st RO has generally more experience of what PB's are looking for and has the opportunity to look at last years selections.

My observations were made from comments by a member of a recent TG17 PB. I, in no way deny that there are some excellent chaps in ACOS Manning, who are worthy of selection for promotion to either rank; yes board members differ every year and those that are presented differ too however, the job of a CM is a high profile one which stands out when presented to a PB. That was my point!

I accept what you & BB say TBJ but I belive my point is valid too. I look forward to further discussion even if we have gone way Off Topic !!

[tommo9999]

HS,

Has your 1st RO been on a PSB? Or asked to be an independent observer?

[Humble Scribe]

HS,

Has your 1st RO been on a PSB? Or asked to be an independent observer?

Glad you've got involved with this one Tommo I was wondering when you would! No is the short answer but I have encouraged him to do so. This is not about me, it's about everybody on a PSB starting on a level playing field regardless of which job that they do. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't started this one but it has provoked a bit of thought and some gentle banter which I have enjoyed.

Back to the CM thread; at least my suggestion is met with some enthusiasm there!!

[tommo9999]

All of that said, you still did really well on the PSB!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ReluctantClerk]

All of that said, you still did really well on the PSB!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sadly as most of us know, doing really well on the PSB means fcuk all when it comes to actually getting promoted!:PDT_Xtremez_06:

[tommo9999]

Sadly as most of us know, doing really well on the PSB means fcuk all when it comes to actually getting promoted!:PDT_Xtremez_06:

Really??? I thought you had to do really well to get promoted.

[ReluctantClerk]

Really??? I thought you had to do really well to get promoted.


Maybe I didn't express that as well as I could after a few last night :PDT_Xtremez_03: . What I meant was you can do really well on the PSB but there are no guarantees, requirements and quotas change all the time and the way our trade is currently can anyone really predict the future - I'm note sure they can.

[tommo9999]

Your point about the quota is a good one. There is so much that is out of the immediate control of the drafter in terms of numbers needed/vacancies/posts chopped/trade review/JPA stretch targets/FMDL at higher than base rank etc etc.

[ReluctantClerk]

You're right, the PSB changes are actually nothing to do with them, I think it's just incredibly frustrating for those of us and you know there were plenty, who find we've done great on pre-boarding to see that there it really counts for nothing if the board sitting grades you completely differently. Does that make sense? :PDT_Xtremez_21:

Enough of this I'm boring myself now!:PDT_Xtremez_31: