Advice on how to redress

[Get Tae]

I am after some advice on how to redress some f**ker.:PDT_Xtremez_32:

The story goes like this, came back from Iraq some 9 months ago and still haven't received my operational allowance. Now I know its not a kings ransom (450 quid) but what would you think would have happened before now if I owed the mob this amount of dosh??????

Someone is going to get it up the hoop on Monday morning but I was just wondering how to go about this form of complaint, any help most appreciated.

GT

[gemarriott]

feck the redress just find out who is at fault, peel and dip in cillit bang, worth £450 to see the look in his eye:PDT_Xtremez_14:

I would think an email to OC Human resources if that is the modern name for OC Admin threatening redress would do the trick and focus a few minds.

[Get Tae]

Aye cheers GEM I was wondering who was in charge of all that pish.

They (the royal they of course) blame JPA but I am fed up to the back teeth of them continually blaming JPA for all their **** ups. Imagine if I took 9 months to get a jet in the air (mind you that is the case at ISK at the moment) there would be royal hell to pay, I have just finally had enough and am going to explode. It ain't gonna be pretty.................:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[gemarriott]

Always a bone of contention, techies HAVE to get it right first time, there is seldom a chance to fcuk it up and get away with it. frequently mistakes by techies have disastrous results but the penpushers can shrug and say "damani" as if it doesn't matter because nobody gets hurt.

[student-grant]

Imagine if I took 9 months to get a jet in the air (mind you that is the case at ISK at the moment) there would be royal hell to pay, I have just finally had enough and am going to explode. It ain't gonna be pretty.................:PDT_Xtremez_42:

get tae i have seen you in work and i was always shocked that you EVER got a jet away on time ..................as no doubt a few others were ..............lol::P: ::P: ::P:

[penfold93]

Returned from the sand pit in August got my op allowance as soon as it was announced. Waited until feb for LSA. Threatened HR clerk that I would be starting the formal complaints procedure as detailed on JPA with a copy to OC PSF, my OC and Harry Staish. Funny old thing they started acting upon it and got it soon after. My boss on the other hand got all her LSA but no op allowance went to PSF and found she had been missed off the list. The ball starts rolling with the shineys in PSF so start making some noise and they might get their act together.

[Edzar]

Here at ISL we have a Stn Cdr's forum, do you have one there? If so,m put the question/complaint on there and then maybe everyone will see it.
You may not be the only one in the same situation ie being owed money and cos of the JPA (alleged) automated system, we all are suffering. Its a bit like getting Asians or whoever to answer the phone when trying to sort a car insurance claim...is it not??.....call me a liar...and no I am not racist, but these human resources people should have humans who are 'in the know' answering the questions, not some foreigner....

As GEM said, there never seems to have ever been a way to sort these scribbly gits out when they cock up and we at the front line always suffer.

Grips my sh1t and it needs sorting::P:

[Realist78]

Failing all else, don't the adminners now come under the QA umbrella? QOR the responsible, at least it's official and has to be answered!:PDT_Xtremez_26:

[Albert Park]

Failing all else, don't the adminners now come under the QA umbrella? QOR the responsible, at least it's official and has to be answered!:PDT_Xtremez_26:

Off Topic Not sure that Admin Wing (or Base Support Wing) have a mandatory requirement to observe quality. I am under the impression that they could 'opt-in' on a voluntary basis. If this is the case then I can't see many wanting to take up the offer.

[CodeMonkey]

Off Topic Not sure that Admin Wing (or Base Support Wing) have a mandatory requirement to observe quality. I am under the impression that they could 'opt-in' on a voluntary basis. If this is the case then I can't see many wanting to take up the offer.

Yes it would be nice to QOR PSF but AFAIK they have never been under the quality system in that way. I Felt like QOR them many times in the past for blatently incompetant mistakes but it will never happen.

An ex boss of mine and several other whoose pay had been screwed, threatened legal action(against the staish) and things got moving quickly after that

[MAINJAFAD]

Here at ISL we have a Stn Cdr's forum, do you have one there? If so,m put the question/complaint on there and then maybe everyone will see it.
You may not be the only one in the same situation ie being owed money and cos of the JPA (alleged) automated system, we all are suffering. Its a bit like Asians or whoever to answer the phone when trying to sort a car insurance claim...is it not??.....call me a liar...and no I am not racist, but these human resources people should have humans who are 'in the know' answering the questions, not some foreigner....

As GEM said, there never seems to have ever been a way to sort these scribbly gits out when they cock up and we at the front line always suffer.

Grips my sh1t and it needs sorting::P:

Didn't ISL's staish make the admin side there have to play QA?, that's what I heard when I was doing the QA course a few months back.

[True Blue Jack]

GT. What do you hope to achieve by submitting a redress? Redress action probably won't get you very far, because it is almost certainly JPAC at fault in your case (not that old chestnut again, I hear you cry) and a redress will be just another meaningless piece of paper to them.

My first question to you is how many times have you raised the issue of your OA not being paid? When did you first ask about it? Have you submitted Service Requests (iSupports) to JPAC? What answers have you had back? What did your Unit HR say they had done to generate payment of the allowance?

Until recently, all Unit HR could do was e-mail a spreadsheet detailing entitlement to OA to JPAC who would then generate payment. 2 weeks ago, Unit HR were given the means to do it directly. My advice is that you make sure (by Service Request - best to have it in black & white) that payment of your allowance is not in the system then ask your Unit HR to update JPA themselves.

If you have chased up payment appropriately then you have cause for complaint. If your Unit HR can provide evidence that they have done everything they should have done, then you can beat JPAC with their customer charter. Otherwise, redress away. The most you will get in return is the equivalent interest your bank would have paid on the money owed between 31 Dec 06 (when most backdated payments of the allowance were made) and the actual date of payment.

[Get Tae]

Thanks everyone a few good pointers on here.

Unfortunataly we dont have a staishy forum here at ISK but that might be a good one to raise as the one accross the road seems to work.

TBJ I have i-supported till I am blue in the face and all that happens is they blame our HR folk and our HR folk blame JPA and in the meantime I am a load of money down.:PDT_Xtremez_25:

I dont know what a redress will achieve but I dont see any other way of getting someone somehwere to just sort this out as I am on the verge of going on strike until I get this, its pi$$ing me off that much. And I aint the only one here either, I think its the HR/JPA/PC interface and its gonna get a big rigger hammer to it soon!

And as for you Student Grant, the 'S' rate of the Might Hunter went up by 200% after you left so dont give me any o that pish!!! lol :PDT_Xtremez_28:

[True Blue Jack]

TBJ I have i-supported till I am blue in the face and all that happens is they blame our HR folk and our HR folk blame JPA and in the meantime I am a load of money down.:PDT_Xtremez_25:

That's pretty much the answer I expected from you - unlike the guy in my office last week who kicked off because his pay had been wrong for 6 months, but hadn't told us about it until 3 weeks ago!

My advice to get you paid what you are due still stands. Get JPAC to confirm that payment is not pending, then ask your HR to record the 'element entry'. If it happens quickly, i.e., this week you may even get the money at the end of this month. You should still be able to get compensation for the interest lost - your Chf Clk can advise. Other than that, wherever the fault lies, I'm afraid no-one is going to get sacked or even given a warning. I know you're frustrated and it's not what you want to hear, but it's a fact.

[gemarriott]

That's pretty much the answer I expected from you - unlike the guy in my office last week who kicked off because his pay had been wrong for 6 months, but hadn't told us about it until 3 weeks ago!

My advice to get you paid what you are due still stands. Get JPAC to confirm that payment is not pending, then ask your HR to record the 'element entry'. If it happens quickly, i.e., this week you may even get the money at the end of this month. You should still be able to get compensation for the interest lost - your Chf Clk can advise. Other than that, wherever the fault lies, I'm afraid no-one is going to get sacked or even given a warning. I know you're frustrated and it's not what you want to hear, but it's a fact.

and that has always been what pishes techies off. When we fcuk up we pay the price when shineys fcuk up they shrug, smile and carry on fcuking up.

[True Blue Jack]

and that has always been what pishes techies off. When we fcuk up we pay the price when shineys fcuk up they shrug, smile and carry on fcuking up.

It's hard to disagree with that. All I can really say is that is why we will always be in the lower pay band. In the shineys' defence in this case there is one guy on my sqn in the same position as Get Tae. I know for a fact that his details have been passed to JPAC on 3 occasions since the Operational Allowance was announced, yet they deny all knowledge.

[Get Tae]

Thanks again TBJ, guess I will just have to wait another 9 months then claim my own personal interest rate of 200% and see what they say to that!!

[Realist78]

TBJ, should we (royal) have to chase anything that is owed to us by virtue of us being OOA etc? PMA have sent us, JPA has actioned the move. It's like when people travel from all over the UK to go on, for example, a Q course at BAE Marham, It is a standard move and surely should have attached to it a very simple form to action. This is the very sort of thing that p1sses people off and then to hit the wall of 'well, it's JPA's/unit HR staff's/individual's fault etc' is often the final straw as Get Tae seems to have reached. Whilst in some areas, JPA is indeed progress, the human interface needs some desperate work!:PDT_Xtremez_08:

[gemarriott]

It's hard to disagree with that. All I can really say is that is why we will always be in the lower pay band. In the shineys' defence in this case there is one guy on my sqn in the same position as Get Tae. I know for a fact that his details have been passed to JPAC on 3 occasions since the Operational Allowance was announced, yet they deny all knowledge.

Personally I think the over computerisation of pay and complication of rates and allowances is the biggest problem. I look in at the RAF pay and allowances in total bewliderment now. In the good old bad old days if a fcuk up was made you could walk into gen office and get it sorted there and then, ex gratia payment made and problem solved. The fact that whoever screwed up was largely countered by the fact he spent the next half hour unscrewing it.

Now pay and allowances seem as complicated as the Chancellor's tax system with just as any opportunities to screw it up. 9 months though to solve a simple underpayment defies logic and who could blame somebody for taking a petrol can and lighter to the HR office?

[True Blue Jack]

TBJ, should we (royal) have to chase anything that is owed to us by virtue of us being OOA etc? PMA have sent us, JPA has actioned the move. It's like when people travel from all over the UK to go on, for example, a Q course at BAE Marham, It is a standard move and surely should have attached to it a very simple form to action. This is the very sort of thing that p1sses people off and then to hit the wall of 'well, it's JPA's/unit HR staff's/individual's fault etc' is often the final straw as Get Tae seems to have reached. Whilst in some areas, JPA is indeed progress, the human interface needs some desperate work!:PDT_Xtremez_08:

The short answer is yes. Agree with it or not, it is the principle of self-administration on which JPA is founded. The then Air Cdre Loader headed up the RAF Admin Support Study in 2000 during which he and his team travelled to wherever the RAF was and asked people what they wanted out of their admin support. Overwhelmingly, the view was that people wanted greater control over their personal administration and that is what we now have.

Even travelling on a course is not as simple as you may think. How have you travelled there? Are you living in or travelling daily from home? If you are living in, what food and accommodation charges should you be liable to pay? What about incidental expenses? Are you entitled to separation allowances? Which one? At what rate? Welcome to my world!:PDT_Xtremez_30:

[Tashy_Man]

Even travelling on a course is not as simple as you may think. How have you travelled there? Are you living in or travelling daily from home? If you are living in, what food and accommodation charges should you be liable to pay? What about incidental expenses? Are you entitled to separation allowances? Which one? At what rate? Welcome to my world!:PDT_Xtremez_30:

I don't wanna be in your world........me techie...fix planes...you scribbly fix pay and other stuff.....why should we have to now do YOUR job ?

Crack on.................:PDT_Xtremez_09:

[True Blue Jack]

I don't wanna be in your world........me techie...fix planes...you scribbly fix pay and other stuff.....why should we have to now do YOUR job ?

Crack on.................:PDT_Xtremez_09:

I don't agree with it, but it's what you (plural) asked for.

[Realist78]

The short answer is yes. Agree with it or not, it is the principle of self-administration on which JPA is founded. The then Air Cdre Loader headed up the RAF Admin Support Study in 2000 during which he and his team travelled to wherever the RAF was and asked people what they wanted out of their admin support. Overwhelmingly, the view was that people wanted greater control over their personal administration and that is what we now have.

Even travelling on a course is not as simple as you may think. How have you travelled there? Are you living in or travelling daily from home? If you are living in, what food and accommodation charges should you be liable to pay? What about incidental expenses? Are you entitled to separation allowances? Which one? At what rate? Welcome to my world!:PDT_Xtremez_30:

All of the above 'choices' could be a simple check form (albiet the template would take a little work beforehand), bit like a flow chart with differing outcomes. Any problem of this kind is not insurmountable, if the will to overcome it is present, period.:PDT_Xtremez_19:

On the briefing note, I would love to know how many people were able to, and did, attend these briefings where we apparently said 'JPA? lovely idea, bring it on, even if we don't know the scale of the ensuing hassle it will be!'

[POB]

TBJ, Get Tae, and others looking for missing money! I have finally had JPAC agree that they owe me some money, (nothing minor, just LAST April's pay!) and I should get it at the end of this month...

It did get to the stage of me iSupporting every day...(It seems they might have spent some of the time off, whoops sorry, time preparing for the Army join up doing some extra catching up work?)

All I can say is that is was hard work and a pain for all concerned. But I resent having to chase up money that I was owed, as you obviously do to GT. I got caught in the "Speak to the JPAC/Speak to HR/Speak to the JPAC/Speak to HR" circle for so long I was loosing the will to live. I was even recognised at JPAC on a few occasions "Oh, hi POB, have you got your money yet?"

ps...Saying all this, but I have not actually got the money yet!

[Gunnerrock]

Mate,

Don't redress, try this http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

They pay before it goes to court as they don't want the embarrassment.

It worked here at Honington. :PDT_Xtremez_30:

[Humble Scribe]

GT. If you want to apportion blame in this case, ask the Chf Clk if you can see the spreadsheets that were forwarded between the RAF Focal Point and the Unit notifying those eligible to receive the OA. If you name's on the list correctly, the unit have met their requirement to effect payment, if not, someone has some explaing to do in PSF.

Either way, ask the Chf Clk/OC PSF to write to SO1, R&WO Section, Mail Point 600 with a valid claim for loss of interest for circumstances outside of your control. You may find that some sort of 'compo' is forthcoming.

Must stress though that this should come from the unit who have fully investigated the matter rather than you, the individual.

[Tashy_Man]

Must stress though that this should come from the unit who have fully investigated the matter rather than you, the individual.

Slightly Off Topic If as TBJ said we (royal we at that) all wanted to do our own account's, pay, admin etc, why cannot we investigate WHY the cockup has happened ? The unit or PSF or HR (whatever the day is) obviously can't be ar$ed so why shouldn't the individual be able to submit the claim to the address you quoted ?

Seems to me the scriblies are looking for jobs to make them irreplaceable so lean doesn't take effect....i got news for you...it dont matter the RAF will be integratted into the Army by 2025.

Hope you all love green....

Crack on.............:PDT_Xtremez_09:

[Realist78]

Slightly Off Topic If as TBJ said we (royal we at that) all wanted to do our own account's, pay, admin etc, why cannot we investigate WHY the cockup has happened ? The unit or PSF or HR (whatever the day is) obviously can't be ar$ed so why shouldn't the individual be able to submit the claim to the address you quoted ?

Seems to me the scriblies are looking for jobs to make them irreplaceable so lean doesn't take effect....i got news for you...it dont matter the RAF will be integratted into the Army by 2025.

Hope you all love green....

Crack on.............:PDT_Xtremez_09:

A completely :PDT_Xtremez_26: valid point I think.

[True Blue Jack]

All of the above 'choices' could be a simple check form (albiet the template would take a little work beforehand), bit like a flow chart with differing outcomes. Any problem of this kind is not insurmountable, if the will to overcome it is present, period.:PDT_Xtremez_19:

On the briefing note, I would love to know how many people were able to, and did, attend these briefings where we apparently said 'JPA? lovely idea, bring it on, even if we don't know the scale of the ensuing hassle it will be!'

You're right, but doing that would mean building an all-singing, all-dancing bespoke system and not the (supposedly cheaper) Commercial Off-The-Shelf package that quickly became the focus of the JPA project.

On your other point, I happened to know 2 of the 4 RASS team members very well. When they came to where I was for their visit they told me that during the 6 months they were on-the-road they had been to or were due to go to every unit that had RAF personnel. During their visit to us, they personally interviewed every individual. Clive Loader is nothing if not thorough.

[Get Tae]

Gunnerrock cheers for that, that was the next step if it aint paid by the end of this month and was what I put into an e0mail to my HR folk on the Sqn saying was my next sourse of action.

HumbleScribe, thanks for that too, I will get onto that in the morning and see what happens.

I dont want this to be a thread against shinies, not everyone has had a bad deal from JPA, only about 93% of us have had our pay ****ed up.

It maybe a shiny error but I personally am hankering its JPA, I would love to meet the ar$e who gave this the OK (AC Loader ws it?). Bet he is now retired on ful pay along with all the other so called leaders of men (read ar$es) we have at the top now.

They can all just ferking Get Tae!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[monobrow]

AC Loader ws it?

Off Topic Read this page and see if you see a "familiar" name......

Re-inventing the wheel gets you places Off Topic

http://www.raf.mod.uk/structure/rafcommands.cfm

[Get Tae]

Funny that Mono, same old same old mate.

When will anyone other than us non-coms realise that the upper tier of nest liners are promoted and promoted on the back of absolute feck ups like procurement, reshuffles etc etc and then they only have the balls to say anything when they have their pensions.

AC Loader you are a horses arse, I hope you can sleep well at night knowing the scum that actually fly/fix/work in the real RAF are sick to the back teeth of not getting paid properly??? Well done Sir you have done a brilliant job..........:PDT_Xtremez_32:

[Get Tae]

As an update, allegedly it IS going to be paid at the end of the month. i will believe it when I see it, funny what a wee threat or two will do eh?

Now all I need is my substitution pay and back dated specialist crew pay...............only about 1000 quid they owe me, AR$E!!!!!!!!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_25:

[Realist78]

You're right, but doing that would mean building an all-singing, all-dancing bespoke system and not the (supposedly cheaper) Commercial Off-The-Shelf package that quickly became the focus of the JPA project.
On your other point, I happened to know 2 of the 4 RASS team members very well. When they came to where I was for their visit they told me that during the 6 months they were on-the-road they had been to or were due to go to every unit that had RAF personnel. During their visit to us, they personally interviewed every individual. Clive Loader is nothing if not thorough.

Oh so true, wouldn't it be a great move to have a bespoke system given that we do a bespoke job etc. I would love to meet the fcukers who buy this sh1te off the shelf because it's CHEAP (and fcuking nasty! to boot). It might work for a bank/woolworths/any retail outlet etc but not for us without a hell of a lot of in service development. Why do we have to put up with crap that is bought by a senior officer(s) who are, as a result of the 2 year nonsense, star performers in the @rse and elbow fraternity.::/:

[Chuffybum]

As an update, allegedly it IS going to be paid at the end of the month. i will believe it when I see it, funny what a wee threat or two will do eh?

Now all I need is my substitution pay and back dated specialist crew pay...............only about 1000 quid they owe me, AR$E!!!!!!!!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_25:

Best of luck GT, hope you get your money as promised. If not just redress OC Admin (or BSW or whatever he's called) at your Unit. I would imagine things would start to move pretty fast after that.

[Humble Scribe]

As an update, allegedly it IS going to be paid at the end of the month. i will believe it when I see it, funny what a wee threat or two will do eh?

Now all I need is my substitution pay and back dated specialist crew pay...............only about 1000 quid they owe me, AR$E!!!!!!!!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_25:

Your PSF should be able to see your April pay statement by now so they should be able to confirm whether it will be paid or not.

[Get Tae]

Your PSF should be able to see your April pay statement by now so they should be able to confirm whether it will be paid or not.

Cheers for that I will find out tommorrow!

[True Blue Jack]

Cheers for that I will find out tommorrow!

Make sure you speak to them in the morning - HR users only have part-time access to JPA this week because of Army rollout.

[busbyboy]

You're right, but doing that would mean building an all-singing, all-dancing bespoke system and not the (supposedly cheaper) Commercial Off-The-Shelf package that quickly became the focus of the JPA project.

On your other point, I happened to know 2 of the 4 RASS team members very well. When they came to where I was for their visit they told me that during the 6 months they were on-the-road they had been to or were due to go to every unit that had RAF personnel. During their visit to us, they personally interviewed every individual. Clive Loader is nothing if not thorough.

I think you must be confusing the said individual with someone who cares about anyone other than himself - certainly that is my experience. And his current position will not help matters to improve any time soon.

[PSFbeatch]

I am after some advice on how to redress some f**ker.:PDT_Xtremez_32:

The story goes like this, came back from Iraq some 9 months ago and still haven't received my operational allowance. Now I know its not a kings ransom (450 quid) but what would you think would have happened before now if I owed the mob this amount of dosh??????

Someone is going to get it up the hoop on Monday morning but I was just wondering how to go about this form of complaint, any help most appreciated.

GT

this one is easy peasy
1 Operational allowance only came about sept/oct time...quite possibly you were missed

2 the JPA programmers have been working on a way for unit admin to put it onto JPA, this has now been done so get yourself down there...they will put it on element entries and they should put it on a retro spreadsheet so you can be added to the 3 months+ run.

et voila
2

[Humble Scribe]

this one is easy peasy
1 Operational allowance only came about sept/oct time...quite possibly you were missed

2 the JPA programmers have been working on a way for unit admin to put it onto JPA, this has now been done so get yourself down there...they will put it on element entries and they should put it on a retro spreadsheet so you can be added to the 3 months+ run.

et voila
2

Sounds simple PSFB and we've followed the instructions to the letter at my unit (trust me) and I still have people that have not been paid the OA. This is despite my JNCO spending many hours checking & re-checking the procedures and ringing JPAC/Focal Point constantly.

It's easy to blame the shiney's for the non-payment of the OA but the guidelines we have been given haven't worked for all and we're going to have some very disappointed people when they see their Apr pay statements!!

[True Blue Jack]

this one is easy peasy
1 Operational allowance only came about sept/oct time...quite possibly you were missed

2 the JPA programmers have been working on a way for unit admin to put it onto JPA, this has now been done so get yourself down there...they will put it on element entries and they should put it on a retro spreadsheet so you can be added to the 3 months+ run.

et voila
2

And if it is already pending payment following action by JPAC he will be paid it twice. GT may think it suitable recompense for being screwed around. Until someone notices and does him for fraud.

On the plus side, I recorded the element entry for my OA when I got back to work 2 weeks ago and it's in my Apr pay. I'm not gloating, GT, I'm just trying to point out that there is no reason for anyone to have to wait long periods for their OA in future.

[Get Tae]

Well ferk my old boots! Just looked at the next pay run and low and behold I have recieved my OA bonus.

All I need now is to get my subby pay from aug/sept/oct last year and crew pay from dec onwards amounting to 1400 quid in total!...........................