View Full Version : Air Cadets & VR(T) Officers
Does anyone have any opinions or stories on cadets and their staff?
Apart from the space cadet/plastic rupert gags.
Norman the Storeman
07-01-2006, 16:05
Do not gate crash their summer camp bop & try to cop off with the fit girlies, no matter how 'grown-up' they look..you will go to jail!
North Sea Tiger
07-01-2006, 17:49
After I left the Service I became a CI in my local ATC unit .. and before the slagging starts .. in fact no .. cant defend myself really can I ?? .. small town north of ISK and the cadets were regularly forgotten about by the wing .. kinda felt sorry for them (an action I would later regret)
Anyway the cadets were a decent bunch but let down by leadership that the word abysmal doesnt even cover. I ended up doing all the Night Ex's and generally being the dogsbody .. left because on writing the scenario for a Night Ex I dared to use the word "Excrement", normally I prefer the word s**t but thought I would tone down the language. Got "bollocked" by the Flt Lt (VR) and basically told him to ram it a week later. Find this a bit rich as the Female WO (VR) had on coming back from a gliding weekend had driven off and left a cadet in a cafe because she later apparently said "she had been warned how long I would wait" .. Nice eh ??
But the best bit concerned an ex Flt Sgt cadet who had returned to work in the area after Uni and on his first night back declared he wanted his Commission .. and he got it too .. the OC of the Wing was an ex boss of the Sqn and knew the lad since he was young (told you .. small town) .. this pratt didnt have to wait the six months you are supposed to spend as a CI before applying for your frontal lobotomy. His "friend" the Wg Cdr sorted it for him .. :rolleyes:
Dont get involved with them .. total waste of time .. being preached to by people who honestly think they know more about the RAF than people who are in it just aint worth it .. Sad lot really.
A CLING NERD SHRON
08-01-2006, 02:53
Well done NST. Nobody really cares............Blah blah blah
North Sea Tiger
08-01-2006, 09:20
Well done NST. Nobody really cares............Blah blah blah
Oh no .. Hitting ... me .... right ... where .. it ... hurts ... in ... my ... forum .. posting .. skills .. :D
Thanks Nerdy .. everytime I think life is a bit crap .. I realise I could be you .. :D
Keep your impotent putdowns coming .. you'll get bored before I do !!
We have a chap that works in a particulary civilian dominated area of my trade who is also a Flt Lt in the local cadets. Problem is he forgets himself sometimes and attempts to impress his part time rank on those blue suits he encounters in his daily routine. Suffice to say he doesn't get very far! He is a member of the officers mess and at one time was going to turn up at a Sqn all ranks "Dining In" night, in his mess kit, until it was pointed out he was attending as a member of the Sqn not a VR officer.
I actually like most of these people. I was a cadet myself in the dim and distant and they do keep the kids off the street, unfortunatley there is a minorirty that give the good ones a bad name (as per NST's post)
DoesMyBumLookBigInThis?
08-01-2006, 19:33
You would never believe it....but I was once a spacey too and thought it was absolutely brilliant!! It provided so many opportunities to do things, travel and see so much more than anything else I could have possibly done as a young teen.
I played sport all over the country, got to go to great confidence and leadership training and visited some amazing countries. If you find the right one (taking into account I was in Northern Ireland during political unrest and I still got to do all of this!) it 'grooms' you well with some quality life skills and a great start to adult life, military or not :)
Cat of Shadows
08-01-2006, 20:44
If you find the right one
Never a truer word spoken, and as with members of the RAF it's down to personalities as no matter what specialisation/trade you are, we've all got bad eggs.
I was a cadet in my youth, (2397 (Devizes) Sqn, Dorset and Wilts Wing). B****y great Sqn, great staff and the benefit, (at the time), of having, RAF Upavon, Hullavington, Lyneham, BZN, Netheravon, Kemble, Boscombe Down, Keevil, Wroughton, Rudloe Manor, Colerne, Middle Wallop and Salisbury Plain right on the door step.............................and here I feel lies a problem for modern cadets.
Half those places don't exist anymore for my old Sqn, so the current squadron strength do not necessarily get the same benefits that I did when I was a cadet. As a result I think this is reflecting itself in the overall calibre of VRs we then get coming along................they just don't get enough interaction with the services anymore.
We had problem VRs when I was in the ATC, who didn't, but following a few 'choice' moments on regular visits to active RAF units, they suddenly and miraculously 'got the message'...................I just don't think this is so readily the case anymore.
Cracking organisation though and I think we should support it better. As I've moved around with the service I've been a Service Instructor on a number of Sqn's. The cadets really do value the benefit of having 'real' members of the RAF on their Sqn staff, even if some of the so called adults don't.
Thank for the replies chaps.
Ok, cards on table, I'm ex TCW (BZN) and having been away from the forces for some years, i got involved with my local ATC unit a couple of years ago. I am currently a C.I. but have been invited to apply for a VRT commission. The Herts & Bucks wing seem like a good bunch on the whole, with courses run for staff on the MOD today, how to conduct yourself etc. It seems to me a valuable way to spend freetime teaching our youngsters something constructive, so hopefully they won't turn into dope smoking hoodies:eek:.
I was curious to know how RAF VR(T) officers are perceived by regular RAF personnel these days.
Cat of Shadows
09-01-2006, 21:22
I think you should go for it fella. It is a very worthwhile organisation to be a part of and at least you will be contributing from a position of first hand knowledge, even if you have been out of the RAF for a while.
Look at it this way, if you don't do it, how will you feel if you find out the guy that did then turned out to be one of these absolute choppers who thinks he has actually joined the RAF for real and proceeds to make all the cadets lives hell?
Remember its the kids you're doing it for.......................too many VRs forget that, or indeed just do it for personal glory from day one................these guys are the real 'Walts'.
Go for it mate, and keep us posted on how it goes. :D
Twonston Pickle
10-01-2006, 13:09
I am also an ex-cadet and valued the lessons I learnt before joining up. Eventually gained my commission and was posted to an area near my old ATC. I offered my help and went along a few times. Despite knowing the staff from my cadet days, I felt very much an outsider and resented for my experience/knowledge as somebody who might show up their own lack of knowledge and skills. Quit helping after only 2 months. I think it is still better than nothing for the kids though.
Bluntend
10-01-2006, 13:34
I know this is slightly off thread but since we’re talking about ‘military’ life before the RAF I thought I’d see what people’s views were on other set ups such as OTC and UAS. It turns out that many of the ex-UAS cadets that I joined up with are now no longer serving having volunteered for early release. More than a few failed to make it through IOT. This makes me wonder what kind of life is expected once you’ve joined the regular RAF if your previous experience is of the cadets or a UAS. Do these organisations really give the wrong impression of life in the military? :confused:
I never joined the Air Cadets or my UAS so I have no insight into what they’re like aside from accounts from friends who were. I decided instead to join the TA before the RAF. Ironically, had I stayed with the TA I would have spent more time at war than I have so far in full time service.
shoutingwind
10-01-2006, 14:41
i was a cadet for a bit- and really enjoyed it. i could bull my shoes by the time i went through basic- Very useful.
During my training at Cosford i helpped out with the cadet sqn there- never again. for the most part the kids were great fun to work with, we'd take them walking and on night exs, but being on a RAF camp there were a few "my dad's a sgt so i don't have to do what you say!" or "i'm a cadet *insert rank here*, your an AC therefore i out rank you" yeah right. The differnce between wings with RAF camps in, and those without for example LASER where i was a cdt is really noticable. But even worse than the kids were the adult staff- all those VRT peps who couldn't hack the real thing so became ATC officers instead, or the admin lady who thought she could boss us around because her husband was a higher rank. too much back stabbing. the civvie staff hated the military staff and way too much politics.
its always good when you tell the Cdt Sgts that they can't eat in the junior ranks mess, and send them to the snecs mess though.... hehehe
M_for_Mother
10-01-2006, 14:53
Good God! I was suprised to find that you can get VR(T) Wing Commanders and Squadron Leaders!
I don't think that a 2-week course at RAF Cranwell followed by 2 evenings a week qualifies you to be an Officer, let alone a Senior Officer. I sh!t 'em.
I don't salute them either, the beauty of this plan is that they don't have the balls to pick you up on it.
Hoorah! M for Mother is back, quick everyone lets stalk him!
In the sqn i 'serve' with, we are blessed with an ex army W.O. of 22yrs service (some active) who has just transfered to W.O. ATC when he left, and his wife a Flt Lt (reg) is the sqn adj. Really nice people to get on with and will not suffer fools gladly. This is shown up beautifully at wing events, where if any of the uniformed staff start going "walter Mitty" they get batted down!:D .
It remains to be seen if they stick around, but the cadets have really benefitted under their guidance and encouragement. Wish there were more like them.
Twonston Pickle
11-01-2006, 11:33
It's worth noting that even a VR(T) Wg Cdr only holds the substantive rank of Fg Off and I take great delight in reminding them that in an operational situation, they revert to substantive rank and are subordinate to me!!
Well folks,
I have been in front of the board and regret to announce that i did'nt succeed this time. I can now state that the ACO do not select any old numpty into VR(T) ranks, oh no! The format consisted of fairly in-depth questions on ATC and RAF Modus Operandi, aircraft, what where and what for command structure , and how the Air Cadet Organization really works. (areas where i had a mind blank). The board also mark you on personal appearence, communication skills and intelligence etc. And this is at Wing level. The next stage is the regional board, and thats more of the same only harder.
As for me, I was 'close, but no cigar' I will do it again in six months time.
P.S. i am not a numpty....no really
The Ballerina
02-02-2006, 20:19
I have never been in the ATC but have had various encounters with them whilst in the RAF. Working in the shed we get the usual lot in the summer on work experience. These are usually quite keen and willing to help finding it a bit of a privilege to do a bit of spannering on an aircraft.
However on one occasion i was stood in the queue at the mess whilst the chefs exercised there bit of power by making us wait 2 mins before opening the servery. Suddenly a young ATC SGT walked to the front of the queue and positioned himself at the front of the queue just in front of a particularly large and puzzled looking JT. On asking the ATC boy what he thought he was doing the boy pointed to his rank slide and said "observe".
I almost broke a few ribs with laughter as the JT said "observe this" whilst back handing the individual. He promptly skulked off to the rear of the queue.
The Helpful Stacker
03-02-2006, 03:59
I have never been in the ATC but have had various encounters with them whilst in the RAF. Working in the shed we get the usual lot in the summer on work experience. These are usually quite keen and willing to help finding it a bit of a privilege to do a bit of spannering on an aircraft.
However on one occasion i was stood in the queue at the mess whilst the chefs exercised there bit of power by making us wait 2 mins before opening the servery. Suddenly a young ATC SGT walked to the front of the queue and positioned himself at the front of the queue just in front of a particularly large and puzzled looking JT. On asking the ATC boy what he thought he was doing the boy pointed to his rank slide and said "observe".
I almost broke a few ribs with laughter as the JT said "observe this" whilst back handing the individual. He promptly skulked off to the rear of the queue.
At a previous unit I was at we had the whole Cdt 'Sgt' situation sorted to a T. We used to send them down the Sgts mess.
They usually came back to the erks mess about 20 minutes or so later looking a little sheepish.
Can't say I ever did bore of it.:PDT_Xtremez_31:
:PDT_Xtremez_31: Thats the way it should be!, sending cadet NCO's to their 'respective' messes, beautiful!:PDT_Xtremez_30:
I think there are two types of VR(T) and most others have already singled them out (that will teach me for joining a thread late, doh!)
I was a spacey and was lucky to have been at a Sqn where the staff knew why they were there - to give kids chances and experiences that will set them up for life. Sadly there is a minority that are there for the walt factor and human nature being human nature, we only really remember the bads ones.
I would recommend joining as adult staff to anyone, but with the extra advice of if you don't like the sqn, for whatever reason, move on to another - you will be a volunteer after all.
Bucket of instant sunshin
11-06-2006, 04:42
About to go down the ASNCO or maybe commission route myself.
Absolutely concur about the walts and the silly staff politics, but I would say : develop a thick skin. Those who sod about backstabbing other staff members are usually unable or unwilling to deliver anything of any use to the cadets, despite endlessly professing to 'know it all' so seek to undermine anyone else who does. They will soon move on to newer targets. do not lose your temper with these people. Just smile and slip away
It has to be said, they have tightenend up the commissioning process, and the introduction of adult SGT/Flt SGTs at least means that there are no 22 year AWOs who got the crown as a consolation prize for failing a commissioning board. the quality of staff is steadily improving, but its a slow process
In the longer term, I definitely want a commission, but only because of the opportunity it gives you to improve the opportunities for you cadets and not have to kow-tow to the latest Plt Offr plastic rupert back stabbing oxygen thief....
Ohh....And be under no illusion that you are part of the RAF. You are civvie and at best a skilled child minder in blue uniform. No one cares if you hold a 1250/MOD90, or a VRT commision, except you!
Bill Bones
11-06-2006, 14:44
For my sins I was a cadet NCO and it was fecking brilliant, got to go and do cool things like flying and shooting (sorry I was a growbag wearing AEF staff cadet at one point) Just wish that there were no walts and pillocks in it.....
I always loved camps and work experience with the rock apes and the ATC (Tea & Donuts yum :PDT_Xtremez_30: )
Even I used to take the silly bollocks 'I can outrank a real serviceman' w@nkers round the back of the gym for a motivational speech and kick into line :PDT_Xtremez_32:
And did persuade some tube Sgt that he was eligible for the Sgts mess, shame as the SWO happened to be just inside the door when he waltzed in...
Was any one in the 1083 Sqn (Uxb) around the mid 90's?
Just a quick question before I go on.
However I have to say one thing, we did kick arse in sports!
We used to pair up with the Sqd in Northolt, however, there was this one pretty blonde lass, couldn’t be older than 16yrs of age. I can remember a number of good few days when flying; she would sneak off with some junior rate, never to be seen until the end of the day. Your young and think it’s a giggle, however I am sure it was a different guy every time!
Dark Angel
12-06-2006, 21:09
Growing up in a small town just outside Manchester I too joined the ATC for want of anything better to do & I really enjoyed the camps, flying and sports.
However on the subject of VR(t) officers I met some really good ones and some really cr#p ones. When I first joined the CO was a female copper and she was great, always talking to the cadets and finding out what we wanted to do and learn, however it was a great loss to us when she moved to a squadron nearer home and the then flying officer was promoted, he was the total opposite, never left the safety of his desk, kept activities to those he didn't have to get involved in like drill. Turns out he was a absolute nobody in his day job and only didd it to make himself feel important, which when I left Ipromptly told him to his face.
The fun of it was when i joined up and finished my training I decided to donate some bits and pieces I thought would be good training aids for the cadets, so i made my way down there and was greeted by some older cadets and the two CI's who remembered me, this drew the attention of two visiting officers from Wing who were in his office and they came out to speak to me and invited me to present awards at the next prize giving, he never moved from his desk as usual but the expression on his face was priceless (wish I'd had a camera).
I'd recommend getting involved a friend of mine is a CI and she really enjoys working with the kids, as several other people have said it's about them and not somebodys need for self worth at the end of the day.:PDT_Xtremez_19:
Major Geek
13-06-2006, 08:27
"However on the subject of VR(t) officers I met some really good ones and some really cr#p ones. "
Thats the same in the real Air Force (.....where ever that is!)
Reformed Scribbly
13-06-2006, 14:50
Having had the pleasure of being ACLO I have enjoyed meeting incoming Summer Camps and as the week progresses watching the staff take careful note and raise their game, or retreat into the camp office. Many are keen and enthusiastic volunteers, some being ex-hairies and reliving the good old days in the mess.
I was yet another ex-spacey, and attended OTC rather thatn the Hooray Henry UAS at University. I thought wrongly that the Army may have been the way forward. Told everyone I didn't want to live in a hole, EAW here I come...
Right then,
I've had word that i'm to go before a commissioning board at the end of this month. So i suppose i will be burying my head in the Telegraph and catching up with the who is who and what is where....
Since the first time i posted on this subject, i have looked at the ATC a little more critically and found that, yes there are individuals that take things far too seriously, but those individuals are gradually being exposed as the fools they are. There are in our wing, staff members who i have been able to get on very well with, and who are not out for themselves, but are there for the cadets. So ultimately, commission or not i can still achieve what i set out to do and not waste my time, down the pub....
I shall report back on whether the cap fits or not, soon.
blue_eyed_girl
28-06-2006, 11:52
i am currently at air cadets now and it is rubbish now!
i am a corporal too but the staff there are bumholes and treat u like pooze
I cant wait to leave that place and join something proper and not a place full of wannabees :P
Norman the Storeman
28-06-2006, 12:34
We have a chap that works in a particulary civilian dominated area of my trade who is also a Flt Lt in the local cadets. Problem is he forgets himself sometimes and attempts to impress his part time rank on those blue suits he encounters in his daily routine. Suffice to say he doesn't get very far! He is a member of the officers mess and at one time was going to turn up at a Sqn all ranks "Dining In" night, in his mess kit, until it was pointed out he was attending as a member of the Sqn not a VR officer.
I actually like most of these people. I was a cadet myself in the dim and distant and they do keep the kids off the street, unfortunatley there is a minorirty that give the good ones a bad name (as per NST's post)
Stax - Aha! I remember him. I used to wind him by entering his section & helping myself to my 'necessarys' without so much as a 'by your leave', he really hated that. Tell him to go & count some socks & stop being so stingey with the shirts! GEEEEEK! :PDT_Xtremez_14:
Would you care to elaborate on why your squadron is so bad?
blue_eyed_girl
28-06-2006, 13:40
Well first of all the staff patronise when ever they can, some do it for fun. further more they show no interest in ur future RAF career what so ever cos my bf went to OASC and gt WSOp (plastic Sgt) and not one said well done! they just told him how hard the course is and it had a high fail rate. As well the promotion system for cadets is awful! he told me i would get promoted next and promoted 2 of my friends instead. I understand were just spaceys but after being there 3 years and doing everything for ur Sqn u except something back. The current OC of the Sqn does nothing, he hates it wen we have parties and shows no interest. all hes bothered in is tea and medals to show off to other Staff in the wing because they actually all no hes crap. in addition, u turn up on the night stand in the drill hall for 30 minutes until the OC and staff have finished there tea and decided what to do with u, which is ever Lessons or Projects and projects are ****! that is all you do, period
Enguineer
28-06-2006, 14:54
Am I alone in thinking that the ATC is a waste of cash these days?
Yes I know that the budget is probably miniscule in the grand scheme of things, but it does cost. The VGS on remote sites (Wethersfield for example) have to be parented, then there is Syerston which appears to be retained purely for ATC cadets! (I may be wrong?) I can't imagine they are the recruiting tool they once were.
Recently at St Athan there was no Sgt's Mess accomodation available. The course members were given rooms in a block converted from 16 man rooms. Prior to 'marching out' the SNCOs had to do sheet change from a room in one of the new 'super blocks'. Imagine their surprise when they realised it was full of cadets on summer camp using en-suite rooms.
Well first of all the staff patronise when ever they can, some do it for fun. further more they show no interest in ur future RAF career what so ever cos my bf went to OASC and gt WSOp (plastic Sgt) and not one said well done! they just told him how hard the course is and it had a high fail rate. As well the promotion system for cadets is awful! he told me i would get promoted next and promoted 2 of my friends instead. I understand were just spaceys but after being there 3 years and doing everything for ur Sqn u except something back. The current OC of the Sqn does nothing, he hates it wen we have parties and shows no interest. all hes bothered in is tea and medals to show off to other Staff in the wing because they actually all no hes crap. in addition, u turn up on the night stand in the drill hall for 30 minutes until the OC and staff have finished there tea and decided what to do with u, which is ever Lessons or Projects and projects are ****! that is all you do, period
Sorry to hear that. It sounds to me like your staff have had no service experience(or failed entrance), otherwise i'm sure they would support anyone wanting to join the RAF, that's primarily what the ATC is for. "To promote and encourage among young people a practical interest in aviation and the Royal Air Force."
It's down to the staff to keep cadets motivated and keen. Our squadron is staffed entirely by service and ex-service personnel, activities include, DofE, gliding & flying, shooting, athletics as well as various projects, lessons, and of course lots of drill:PDT_Xtremez_28: . As a result we have a happy bunch of campers. It maybe worth while speaking to your wing staff officer, or perhaps look at joining another squadron.
As for promotion, well the old adage goes "when i do well, no one remembers, when i do bad, no one forgets..."
Let us know how you get on.:PDT_Xtremez_30:
ROTORHEAD
28-06-2006, 21:30
At Leuchars in 78, I an LAC, went into the Colonel for a couple of swallies one night to find a Spacy Flt Sgt at the bar. On chating to him he got on his uppers a bit, telling me that he was actually a WO but his shoulder flashes hadn't arrived. Myself and a couple of mates generally took the pi*s out of him and away he went. Strange thing was, he was over 18 and legal to drink and I was 17 and a bit and breakin the law. "oops!"
Only other real contact with the ATC was cursing them for being ahead of me in the que in the mess at various stations, particularly as they had better kit thanI had.
At Leuchars in 78, I an LAC, went into the Colonel for a couple of swallies one night to find a Spacy Flt Sgt at the bar. On chating to him he got on his uppers a bit, telling me that he was actually a WO but his shoulder flashes hadn't arrived. Myself and a couple of mates generally took the pi*s out of him and away he went. Strange thing was, he was over 18 and legal to drink and I was 17 and a bit and breakin the law. "oops!"
Only other real contact with the ATC was cursing them for being ahead of me in the que in the mess at various stations, particularly as they had better kit thanI had.
Bit ofa funny one there, when on camp, as cadets, they should't be drinking in the Colonel! Its one of those strange little rules that are still hanging about.
Stax - Aha! I remember him. I used to wind him by entering his section & helping myself to my 'necessarys' without so much as a 'by your leave', he really hated that. Tell him to go & count some socks & stop being so stingey with the shirts! GEEEEEK! :PDT_Xtremez_14:
Norman, he is no longer with us, he has gone off to be a plastic Copper (PCSO) enough said?
Ian Lawson
06-08-2006, 09:18
As an ATC WO I sadly agree that most VRT Officers are just uniform wearers and arn't fit to hold the Queens commission, and in fact as far as I,m concerned they are not and never will be officers. Unlike most of our staff I did serve albeit in the Army so do now what I am talking about.:PDT_Xtremez_03:
It's worth noting that even a VR(T) Wg Cdr only holds the substantive rank of Fg Off and I take great delight in reminding them that in an operational situation, they revert to substantive rank and are subordinate to me!!
All VR(T) Officers hold the substantive rank of Fg Off, However I would be very suprised if you met one in an operational situation as they automatically lose their commisions if this Country declares War and a state of emergency is declared.
I used to be a cadet as well, and I really enjoyed it. On the occasions when I have had dealings with the corps since joining the RAF I have found that without exception the staff have always been courteous to myself and my staff. The cadets have likewise been well behaved, respectful and a pleasure to work with. They are the opposite of all the chav to$$ers that i so despise!
I don't doubt that there are bad apples amonst them, there are amongst us after all, it's just that i havent met them.
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