Operational Allowance

[The Loan Ranger]

Am I in the minority or has this happened to anyone else,

I returned from my DWR 28th September last year and had to cut short my POL as the only other person in my office was going away 11th October so to say the least I wasn't best pleased. I heard about the Operational Allowance and thought I would just wait a week or two as I was sure the Admin bods would be swamped with the Aircrew demanding their allowance, so I patiently waited until the first week in December when I went in to give my details to the ever so helpful people in PSF/HR/Man Servs or whoever it was that day.
I did manage some leave at Xmas so I guess I should be happy for that and on my return I enquired about when I was due any payment as JPA didn't show anything, my details had been lost, so I wrote them all down again and left not totally happy but understanding that accidents do happen and people do forget things.

Nothing arrives in Feb and JPA is so good I can't gain access I once again take an hour out of my life to pop down to PSF/HR/Man Servs again to see what's happening only to find out that my details have been lost again, now I'm a bit upset as this cash is destined for my forthcoming house purchase or should I say stamp duty and had it arrived when lots of other peoples arrived LAST YEAR!!! it was going into savings to make a bit of interest.

So now I e-mail the useless crowd who attend PSF/HR/Man Servs and ask the where is my allowance, once again giving my full details of DWR, dates etc: only this time copying said mail to Bosses on my side and theirs, I get an e-mail back saying I SHOULD receive payment at the end of April, now I'm sure we've all been messed around somewhere in the world by the Admin system but having to wait more than 6months for an Allowance surely beggars belief.

In this day and age almost everyone is held accountable for doing their job so why can I take no action against said people for failing to do their job ??

[True Blue Jack]

You are right to be frustrated. Just a quick word in your PSF's defence: The operational allowance was announced, out of the blue, shortly after you returned. Not only was there a massive backlog to work through, but initially there was no way for JPA to pay it.

I think I am right in saying that most people received the money they were owed in December, and on the face of it there is no reason for you not to have received yours at the same time.

Right now you are in the same position as me - JPA is down in preparation for Army go-live, so nobody can do anything.

I would suggest that you get your bank to write you a letter stating how much interest you would have been paid on the money owed over the period 1 Jan to 30 Apr and tell the Chf Clk you want the RAF to refund you. It works if you incur bank charges because you have been underpaid, so it's got to be worth a go.

[Humble Scribe]

There could be a couple of reason's you haven't been paid your OA. The procedure was that the BS&D cell at Inns sent out spreadsheets to all Chf Clks in Nov detailling all personnel they thought should be entitled to the OA; PSF had to verify the information and return to Inns who would forward to JPA for payment. Any missing personnel should have been added to the spreadsheet.

For end Dec/Jan/Feb another spreadsheet was forwarded and same process was gone through and PSF's had the opportunity to add anyone who hadn't previously been paid the OA; this is where your details should have been included. Most people should have received the OA by now who had returned from OOA up to end Jan 07.

The reason you might not have been picked up for payment could be that your det was not actioned to JPA or not actioned correctly; obviously we can't tell until next week. If your det is on JPA then PSF may not have verified the information sent to them by Inns, in which case you're quite entitled to give them a rocket! That said, I have personally forwarded an individuals claim for the OA twice to the BS&D cell and they also remain unpaid although they acknowledge that they have received it!!

Unfortunately, I can't give you any answers as to when you'll be paid but there's no reason why your PSF shouldn't be able to after JPA is back on line. TBJ is correct in the fact that you can ask for interest charges to be creditted to you and again OC PSF should be able to write a case for this to happen. I have seen a couple of cases recently where personnel have got interest back from the JPAC!

[The Loan Ranger]

Cheers for the replies and I do understand that there were loads of people entitled to this all at once and the fact that it was/is a huge job, my main gripe is really why is there no recourse agianst someone not doing the job the say they've done??

I will hold my hands up to being a Stacker and have in my years worked at a few fast jet units an Sqn's and if I didn't do what I was supposed to do then firstly the TM's would get all hot under the collar then the JEngO and shortly after the SEngO and I would have been on OC Supply's office first thing explaining myself (luckily this never happened), NCR/QOR action would be taken to stop any repeat of this happening again....

[True Blue Jack]

NCR/QOR action would be taken to stop any repeat of this happening again....

NCR never invaded the shiney world (I have never heard the term QOR - what is it?). I don't know why, I think it would be a good thing. Quite often problems with people's pay is not the fault of the clerk in PSF/on the sqn, but as long as we can prove that we can identify exactly where the failings are.
We know what the answer is, but it would be reassuring to have it in black and white. The grown ups might even sit up and take notice.

[KingGuin]

There could be a couple of reason's you haven't been paid your OA. The procedure was that the BS&D cell at Inns sent out spreadsheets to all Chf Clks in Nov detailling all personnel they thought should be entitled to the OA; PSF had to verify the information and return to Inns who would forward to JPA for payment. Any missing personnel should have been added to the spreadsheet.

For end Dec/Jan/Feb another spreadsheet was forwarded and same process was gone through and PSF's had the opportunity to add anyone who hadn't previously been paid the OA; this is where your details should have been included. Most people should have received the OA by now who had returned from OOA up to end Jan 07.

The reason you might not have been picked up for payment could be that your det was not actioned to JPA or not actioned correctly; obviously we can't tell until next week. If your det is on JPA then PSF may not have verified the information sent to them by Inns, in which case you're quite entitled to give them a rocket! That said, I have personally forwarded an individuals claim for the OA twice to the BS&D cell and they also remain unpaid although they acknowledge that they have received it!!

Unfortunately, I can't give you any answers as to when you'll be paid but there's no reason why your PSF shouldn't be able to after JPA is back on line. TBJ is correct in the fact that you can ask for interest charges to be creditted to you and again OC PSF should be able to write a case for this to happen. I have seen a couple of cases recently where personnel have got interest back from the JPAC!

Seriously? I have been in PSF a long time and have yet to hear of any case that succeeded. I would (professionally) be interested in details as payment of interest charges sets a precedent and provides a lever for future use.

[Kernow]

NCR never invaded the shiney world (I have never heard the term QOR - what is it?). I don't know why, I think it would be a good thing. Quite often problems with people's pay is not the fault of the clerk in PSF/on the sqn, but as long as we can prove that we can identify exactly where the failings are.
We know what the answer is, but it would be reassuring to have it in black and white. The grown ups might even sit up and take notice.

At a large transport base with an ageing and an Ice Cream Sqn the NCRs were used for the shiney world as well. I hasten to add that it was only the techies that used them. The system worked well to be honest when you had to produce in writing where the problem lay, not only for the individual and PSF that had been NCR'd in identifying where there was a problem, but also to show that the majority of the time it was a SAMA glitch etc rather than the trusty on-base and easy to abuse scribbly. The problem that we had though was if it was found to be a PMA issue then the NCR did nothing but identify the problem as it was a unit form.

Also I stand to be corrected but I think QOR is Quality Observation Report

[Humble Scribe]

[QUOTE=KingGuin;84973
Seriously? I have been in PSF a long time and have yet to hear of any case that succeeded. I would (professionally) be interested in details as payment of interest charges sets a precedent and provides a lever for future use.[/QUOTE]

Yep! One was a girly who incurred bank charges due to non-payment of salary and the other received 200 notes as they failed to pay FRI for plenty of months. Don't go to the JPAC PACC there's another section in Glasgow; I'll PM you the section next week as I'm not in 'til then but it was easy, just one letter and the money appeared as 'Service Charges' on the pay statement!

[rottonapple]

I will hold my hands up to being a Stacker and have in my years worked at a few fast jet units an Sqn's and if I didn't do what I was supposed to do then firstly the TM's would get all hot under the collar then the JEngO and shortly after the SEngO and I would have been on OC Supply's office first thing explaining myself (luckily this never happened), NCR/QOR action would be taken to stop any repeat of this happening again....

QA is going to happen in the shiney world soon , Its already in the AP100C - 10 but its up to the relevant stn cdrs when to start introducing it .

It's going to be a major culture shock to the shinies , Another amazon rain forest will be used up on QORs.:PDT_Xtremez_30:

[POB]

I have been promised my missing wages from last April in this April's pay...That will be a whole 12 months late. If there are ways of getting interest can you make them pulic...TVM

[True Blue Jack]

QA is going to happen in the shiney world soon , Its already in the AP100C - 10 but its up to the relevant stn cdrs when to start introducing it .

It's going to be a major culture shock to the shinies , Another amazon rain forest will be used up on QORs.:PDT_Xtremez_30:

I thought the whole AP100 series were technical manuals? Could you publish the relevant extract?

Like I said, QA for us shineys can only be a good thing, but I believe the directive to introduce it would have to come from Air Officer Administration.

[Humble Scribe]

I have been promised my missing wages from last April in this April's pay...That will be a whole 12 months late. If there are ways of getting interest can you make them pulic...TVM

Speak to Chf Clk/OC PSF. They write to Glasgow supporting your case and, in my experience, they pay up. I'll find out the section name at Glasgow next week.

[Kernow]

QA is going to happen in the shiney world soon , Its already in the AP100C - 10 but its up to the relevant stn cdrs when to start introducing it .

It's going to be a major culture shock to the shinies , Another amazon rain forest will be used up on QORs.:PDT_Xtremez_30:

As I said in my previous it had happened somewhere else. The first week in the job getting a handover and I was QA'd. As a result of not being shown where everything was held and other bits, I ended up writing work procedures (during my leave) for a system I still didn't know. Felt really proud about it especially when the procedures were duly filed by the Wobbly PSF and forgotten.

QA in the shiney world is only ever going to help. To make the system as a whole accountable for their actions and hopefully help the individuals learn from their mistakes can only be a good thing.

Though when I was pinged for not raising a F6000 when requested. When explaining my reasons I put that I had simply forgot due to other tasks (i.e. dealing with Op Fresco manning). The recommendation included remembering not to forget!

[True Blue Jack]

One of the difficulties of QA in the shiney world is that prioritisation of tasks is not as simple as it may be elsewhere, and it is far easier to see our failures than our successes.

Everybody sees their pay problem as our No.1 priority. Unfortunately, there is a lot of other stuff that we do to fixed timelines (prepping people for OOA, termination of service, appraisals, etc.). Sometimes, "routine" problems necessarily get pushed to the bottom of the pile. This is virtually impossible to explain to the poor sod who just wants to be paid properly this month.

[rottonapple]

One of the difficulties of QA in the shiney world is that prioritisation of tasks is not as simple as it may be elsewhere, and it is far easier to see our failures than our successes.

Everybody sees their pay problem as our No.1 priority. Unfortunately, there is a lot of other stuff that we do to fixed timelines (prepping people for OOA, termination of service, appraisals, etc.). Sometimes, "routine" problems necessarily get pushed to the bottom of the pile. This is virtually impossible to explain to the poor sod who just wants to be paid properly this month.


In the techie world we don't even get to proiritise work, we just work till it's done

[Humble Scribe]

In the techie world we don't even get to proiritise work, we just work till it's done

That's why you're on the higher pay band and we're not!!!

[True Blue Jack]

In the techie world we don't even get to proiritise work, we just work till it's done

That's the difference. Bottom line is, the whole of your primary duty - getting the jets airworthy - is "operationally essential", whereas we can't apply that label to everything we do. Also, to be fair, if you haven't been able to finish a job during the day then the night shift takes over. My work is my work and I have to eat and sleep some time, although people who know me will tell you I have often gone without both in order to get things done.

[rottonapple]

I thought the whole AP100 series were technical manuals? Could you publish the relevant extract?


I haven't got access to it at the moment but it's on the intranet somewhere.

[The Loan Ranger]

Unfortunately, there is a lot of other stuff that we do to fixed timelines (prepping people for OOA

I understand that you have other duties to do including the above, on my afore mentioned DWR I received prep certificates 12 months prior to my date then as I got them filled in I handed them in and lo and behold I'd been brought forward 4months and as I handed over my docs I picked up the next set, I was still 4months away from my date and the guy I was replacing had only just arrived in Bosnia....

I've heard about forward planning but doing it 12 months ahead of time must be some kind of record, or are the Admin world psychic

Yes I have been called forward on my DWR, in fact my last 3 have all been brought forward by at least 4 months with one giving me no more than 3 weeks notice to fly, luckily for the Admin bod handed my file I was in date with everything needed and could actually manage to leave with 23 days notice, then again you didn’t have to hear what the other half had to say when I told her, and the answer “life in a blue suit” doesn’t work when the pots and pans start flying

[True Blue Jack]

and the answer “life in a blue suit” doesn’t work when the pots and pans start flying

I know exactly what you mean. I've just come back from Bos having had 5 weeks notice in total. That's the point, though. It's when we get short notice deployments that "routine" stuff gets put on the back burner.

[KingGuin]

Yep! One was a girly who incurred bank charges due to non-payment of salary and the other received 200 notes as they failed to pay FRI for plenty of months. Don't go to the JPAC PACC there's another section in Glasgow; I'll PM you the section next week as I'm not in 'til then but it was easy, just one letter and the money appeared as 'Service Charges' on the pay statement!


Cheers me dear

[KingGuin]

I thought the whole AP100 series were technical manuals? Could you publish the relevant extract?

Like I said, QA for us shineys can only be a good thing, but I believe the directive to introduce it would have to come from Air Officer Administration.

We are only one of two Stns RAF wide who QA their Admin proceedures. It has been well received by all concerned and I would suggest you will see it mandated once the Sec Sponsor publishes the future PFA footprint. Given the nature of our job there is no requirement for NCRs as our technical chums know them - a local proforma would suffice if, and when, anything so serious to warrant mention is discovered.

[KingGuin]

In the techie world we don't even get to proiritise work, we just work till it's done

When you say "we" do you mean the royal "we" or are you referring to the day shift, the swing shift or the night shift? Fellow scribblies imagine how great that would be, handing your in-tray over to the night shift knowing when you came in the next morning (or indeed after your 4 days stand-down) that your work would be done.........bliss!!

[rottonapple]

or indeed after your 4 days stand-down



4 Days stand-down !!!

Where can I apply for that ? :PDT_Xtremez_03:

[SgtScribbly]

In the techie world we don't even get to proiritise work, we just work till it's done

When you say "we" do you mean the royal "we" or are you referring to the day shift, the swing shift or the night shift? Fellow scribblies imagine how great that would be, handing your in-tray over to the night shift knowing when you came in the next morning (or indeed after your 4 days stand-down) that your work would be done.........bliss!!




4 Days stand-down !!!

Where can I apply for that ? :PDT_Xtremez_03:



avoided the issue well there rottonapple, now answer the question

[CTID]

Back to the main topic (Sorry)

I got back from BAS*** last june and am still waiting for my op allowance. been told by my shineys that because of the jpa cut over, jpa didn't recognise me and the other 6 guys for being in BAS***.
Our names are on a list with some wobbly orange somewhere down south and we have been told that we will get paid but no one knows when.

Everybody that has returned since our trip have been paid and spent there dosh.:PDT_Xtremez_09:

[Mr. Dodd]

CTID

If your det was not recorded on JPA then you won’t appear on any lists produced by JPA which also leave me wondering about your OWP/LSA/Field Conditions etc. Ask the HR to check that has been sorted out, if not get them to raise a corrupt arrival report to the BS&D Cell

On the OA issue, the unit will be able to record the entitlement once the system is back and it will be paid at the end of April. You could ask the CC if he/she would give you an advance to cover the monies you are owed and that would be offset at the end of Apr.

[Downsizer]

So just to clarify then and assuming everything works correctly, how long after my return from this hole should my OA be paid. 4 days is the timescale being bandied around out here.

[True Blue Jack]

Back to the main topic (Sorry)

I got back from BAS*** last june and am still waiting for my op allowance. been told by my shineys that because of the jpa cut over, jpa didn't recognise me and the other 6 guys for being in BAS***.
Our names are on a list with some wobbly orange somewhere down south and we have been told that we will get paid but no one knows when.

Everybody that has returned since our trip have been paid and spent there dosh.:PDT_Xtremez_09:

I'm going to make myself very unpopular with the other Shineys now.

Make a nuisance of yourself. You should have had the money 4 months ago, and you still have no idea when you may receive it. So nag, nag, nag until somebody tells you "it will be paid this week". Then if it's not, nag some more.

[The Loan Ranger]

So just to clarify then and assuming everything works correctly, how long after my return from this hole should my OA be paid. 4 days is the timescale being bandied around out here.

Being the person who started this thread and currently I've waited 175 DAYS!! so far so tell everyone out there not to spend it till it clears in your bank account mate

2nd thought to all the Shineys ??

How much interest would I have gained in 150 days of having my cash, it took 25days for one lad who flew back with me to get his money...

[rottonapple]

On a diferent tack ,do basic shinies get enough training on how to rectify problems ?

If not that would make a major difference .


I will admit to only having one major problem with pay .
I was owed almost £1500 food/accom/LOA when living in the desert . after 4 months home I gave up on the pd clerks and went in to see the chief clerk ,one phone call to Innsworth later the money was in my hand.

[True Blue Jack]

On a diferent tack ,do basic shinies get enough training on how to rectify problems ?

If not that would make a major difference .


I will admit to only having one major problem with pay .
I was owed almost £1500 food/accom/LOA when living in the desert . after 4 months home I gave up on the pd clerks and went in to see the chief clerk ,one phone call to Innsworth later the money was in my hand.

I can only comment with confidence on my own training (many moons ago), but I don't think much has changed. My trade training was 18 weeks long, the largest single phase being the pay and allowances phase. We were under no illusion that it was the most important phase of our training and the one guy on my course who failed it was immediately back-coursed.

That said, I learned most about pay in my first year in productive service. I was lucky enough to be able to tap the experience of a load of senior SACs and cpls. That is where we are failing now. When I was at Waddo there was so much experience on the front desk that it worked really well. Most of us picked our tapes up within a couple of months of each other and the vacuum was largely filled by LACs who had no-one to turn to for advice. I saw pretty much the same thing happen at Uxbridge while I was down the road.

As for now, this time last year all our experience with resolving pay problems was wiped out and we all had to learn from scratch. Unfortunately, not everyone has risen to the challenge.

[Boarderlyne]

I can only comment with confidence on my own training (many moons ago), but I don't think much has changed. My trade training was 18 weeks long, the largest single phase being the pay and allowances phase. We were under no illusion that it was the most important phase of our training and the one guy on my course who failed it was immediately back-coursed.

That said, I learned most about pay in my first year in productive service. I was lucky enough to be able to tap the experience of a load of senior SACs and cpls. That is where we are failing now. When I was at Waddo there was so much experience on the front desk that it worked really well. Most of us picked our tapes up within a couple of months of each other and the vacuum was largely filled by LACs who had no-one to turn to for advice. I saw pretty much the same thing happen at Uxbridge while I was down the road.

As for now, this time last year all our experience with resolving pay problems was wiped out and we all had to learn from scratch. Unfortunately, not everyone has risen to the challenge.

Off Topic I also remember ENVEX 3 as being more than just a tad important. It was the only ENVEX where we were given live customers and had to sort out their problems using the AP and not some b***sh*t answer that someone made up on the spot.Off Topic
As to our current situation, you need the senior SACs and the Cpls to help back up the kids. Plus you need the kids to not struggle on alone and not be afraid to ask questions.
Alas there will always be some that are not up to the challenge. The best that we can hope is that they get the assessments that they so richly deserve. :PDT_Xtremez_06:

Back to the subject of the Operational Allowance. As you have been waiting so long, start nagging and don't nag at a low level. Get as far up the chain as you can get (Chf Clk) with a scheduled appointment. And the money should be in your account at a serious rate of knots.

[Hu Jardon]

Back to the subject of the Operational Allowance. As you have been waiting so long, start nagging and don't nag at a low level. Get as far up the chain as you can get (Chf Clk) with a scheduled appointment. And the money should be in your account at a serious rate of knots.
Top class advice - when my lad didn't get his again this month I told him to make an appointment with his Chf Clerk. What do I say to him says he. Tell him you've had to borrow money from your mum to make ends meet and she needs it back. Next day result. They're not Chief Clerks for nothing.

:PDT_Xtremez_14:

[KingGuin]

I'm going to make myself very unpopular with the other Shineys now.

Make a nuisance of yourself. You should have had the money 4 months ago, and you still have no idea when you may receive it. So nag, nag, nag until somebody tells you "it will be paid this week". Then if it's not, nag some more.

While I will do my utmost to help chase payment, if someone is nagging the ass off one of my clerks I am going to get a tadge upset. Remember while advances of pay can be authorised at the whim of the Chf Clk, in theory an individual must prove they have taken all the relative steps to remedy the situation (e.g. I supports etc) and then prove that immediate non payment of due dosh would lead to financial hardship. However, and I really gotta preach the party line, this is really nowt to do with the clerks, it is a matter between the individual and JPA. I know we adminers by nature are a caring bunch but with 30% cut in staff with Admin E2E in progress can we really afford to be for much longer. Ignites blue touch paper and retires......................and yes I have had a cr*p day!

[True Blue Jack]

While I will do my utmost to help chase payment, if someone is nagging the ass off one of my clerks I am going to get a tadge upset. Remember while advances of pay can be authorised at the whim of the Chf Clk, in theory an individual must prove they have taken all the relative steps to remedy the situation (e.g. I supports etc) and then prove that immediate non payment of due dosh would lead to financial hardship. However, and I really gotta preach the party line, this is really nowt to do with the clerks, it is a matter between the individual and JPA. I know we adminers by nature are a caring bunch but with 30% cut in staff with Admin E2E in progress can we really afford to be for much longer. Ignites blue touch paper and retires......................and yes I have had a cr*p day!

I said I was going to make myself unpopular.

I haven't seen the Operational Allowance all the way through because I have been busy earning my own since soon after it was announced. My understanding is that when a guy returns from OOA, the Unit HR enter the details into a spreadsheet which is e-mailed to JPAC. If that is correct then any iSupports submitted by the individual would be closed with those familiar words "Speak to Unit HR." The same applies for most other pay issues that cause problems: LSA, HDT and Food & Accom.

Other than that, I agree totally. It is no longer our job, and we are making a rod for our own backs if we continue to intervene in people's personal admin issues as much as we have been.

[Humble Scribe]

I said I was going to make myself unpopular.

I haven't seen the Operational Allowance all the way through because I have been busy earning my own since soon after it was announced. My understanding is that when a guy returns from OOA, the Unit HR enter the details into a spreadsheet which is e-mailed to JPAC. If that is correct then any iSupports submitted by the individual would be closed with those familiar words "Speak to Unit HR." The same applies for most other pay issues that cause problems: LSA, HDT and Food & Accom.

Other than that, I agree totally. It is no longer our job, and we are making a rod for our own backs if we continue to intervene in people's personal admin issues as much as we have been.

I think that where the OA hasn't been paid for the amount of time quoted in some examples above, the Chf Clk/SNCO/whoever HR is honour bound to get involved as quite clearly the system has failed them and your average non-shiney won't have the necessary experience or clout to get it sorted. KG is correct though; the individual has to make the first attempts at sorting the problem and prove they have exhausted their capabilities before asking for our help. In those circumstances I would happily help out by either chewing someones ear in Glasgow or paying an advance.

[KingGuin]

I think that where the OA hasn't been paid for the amount of time quoted in some examples above, the Chf Clk/SNCO/whoever HR is honour bound to get involved as quite clearly the system has failed them and your average non-shiney won't have the necessary experience or clout to get it sorted. KG is correct though; the individual has to make the first attempts at sorting the problem and prove they have exhausted their capabilities before asking for our help. In those circumstances I would happily help out by either chewing someones ear in Glasgow or paying an advance.

I agree that while we can help we should but our ability to do so is being eroded daily. Not so long ago I interviewed some poor techy whose wages were completely sh***ed thru no fault of his or ours. Feeling magnaminous I approved an advance and instructed an EPIC to be raised for payment. No sooner said than done when the Accts clerk is knocking at my door telling me that the only person who can authorise an EPIC is OC Accts! Apparently JPAC don't like EPICs cos it cocks pay accounts up!!! My reply, tho priceless is unprintable.

[Downsizer]

So nobody can say the timescale that it 'should', in normal circumstancs, be paid in then?

[Boarderlyne]

So nobody can say the timescale that it 'should', in normal circumstancs, be paid in then?
Without JSPs to hand and only going from what is in my alcohol-addled brain (The morning after, the night before!) the 'normal' timescale is approx 6 to 8 weeks. That is assuming that all the right inputs went in at the right time, the det was actioned correctly onto JPA and no gremlin has screwed up the system. After the second pay run sans allowance, the individual should put in an I-support detailing the nature of the problem with dates, location and the allowance that is reasonably expected to be received. If the I-support is closed or not resolved to your satisfaction, cut and paste the whole chain and re-iterate the problem. This alas, will probably take about another month.

If the second I-support is closed without resolution, then escalate the problem to your 1st RO (aka Section Commander, Flight Commander, WO, etc) with a print-off of what you have done to resolve the problem, so that they have sight of what could be a drama in your life. They will advise you to take it to the Unit HR (Sqn Clk) and then the Unit HR will have a go at batting for you. If they have no joy (which from the sounds of it , they won't) they will then advise you to take it to the SNCO PSF or Chf Clk, depending on who your Sqn Clk knows best (another month gone by now).

The SNCO PSF or Chf Clk will then take over the problem as you have done your best and the Sqn Clk has done theirs. (At all points, take print-outs with you as they can do nothing without evidence) and they should be able to resolve the problem in a week or two.

All in all 4 months for the worst problem should be the timescale. Personally, I know that the scribes in PSF are getting grief for problems that are not of their making and that Chf Clks are getting the same for not making sure that people jump through the hoops. They are trying to look after people and cut down the horrible length of time that it takes to resolve the harder than usual problems.

[True Blue Jack]

Without JSPs to hand and only going from what is in my alcohol-addled brain (The morning after, the night before!) the 'normal' timescale is approx 6 to 8 weeks. That is assuming that all the right inputs went in at the right time, the det was actioned correctly onto JPA and no gremlin has screwed up the system. After the second pay run sans allowance, the individual should put in an I-support detailing the nature of the problem with dates, location and the allowance that is reasonably expected to be received. If the I-support is closed or not resolved to your satisfaction, cut and paste the whole chain and re-iterate the problem. This alas, will probably take about another month.

If the second I-support is closed without resolution, then escalate the problem to your 1st RO (aka Section Commander, Flight Commander, WO, etc) with a print-off of what you have done to resolve the problem, so that they have sight of what could be a drama in your life. They will advise you to take it to the Unit HR (Sqn Clk) and then the Unit HR will have a go at batting for you. If they have no joy (which from the sounds of it , they won't) they will then advise you to take it to the SNCO PSF or Chf Clk, depending on who your Sqn Clk knows best (another month gone by now).

The SNCO PSF or Chf Clk will then take over the problem as you have done your best and the Sqn Clk has done theirs. (At all points, take print-outs with you as they can do nothing without evidence) and they should be able to resolve the problem in a week or two.

All in all 4 months for the worst problem should be the timescale. Personally, I know that the scribes in PSF are getting grief for problems that are not of their making and that Chf Clks are getting the same for not making sure that people jump through the hoops. They are trying to look after people and cut down the horrible length of time that it takes to resolve the harder than usual problems.

Am I alone in thinking that is unacceptable? JPA was supposed to make all our lives easier, one of its selling points being the apparent ease with which problems would be resolved, due to everything being on the same system.

Surely all the evidence a guy really needs is the fact that he has not been paid what he is due? There is nothing difficult about The Loan Ranger's problem; the person responsible needs to create the element entry for Operational Allowance and it will be paid.

[Mr. Dodd]

The good news is from the end of the month OA will be recorded direct on JPA by the HR. It will be paid in the next pay (first end of Apr) so not ideal but an end the pain in the a*** process that we had to use since the half baked rushed in process we had to go with.

If memory serves pay run is FRIDAY 13 Apr so form an orderly queue.

My turn for the 900k this month plse:PDT_Xtremez_35:

[True Blue Jack]

If memory serves pay run is FRIDAY 13 Apr so form an orderly queue.

Behind me. :PDT_Xtremez_30:

[KingGuin]

Am I alone in thinking that is unacceptable? JPA was supposed to make all our lives easier, one of its selling points being the apparent ease with which problems would be resolved, due to everything being on the same system.

Surely all the evidence a guy really needs is the fact that he has not been paid what he is due? There is nothing difficult about The Loan Ranger's problem; the person responsible needs to create the element entry for Operational Allowance and it will be paid.

TBJ no you are not. Much about the current JPA system is unacceptable (don't even get me started on that 10 working days bollox!) but it is slowly being rectified. My hope is that Jonny Public will realise that TG17 continue to try to provide best service but have limited tools with which to do the job.

[Humble Scribe]

I agree that while we can help we should but our ability to do so is being eroded daily. Not so long ago I interviewed some poor techy whose wages were completely sh***ed thru no fault of his or ours. Feeling magnaminous I approved an advance and instructed an EPIC to be raised for payment. No sooner said than done when the Accts clerk is knocking at my door telling me that the only person who can authorise an EPIC is OC Accts! Apparently JPAC don't like EPICs cos it cocks pay accounts up!!! My reply, tho priceless is unprintable.

Come on! We could all do with a laugh before the England game; I'd like to think I'd remain fairly calm in similar circumstances however.....

[KingGuin]

Come on! We could all do with a laugh before the England game; I'd like to think I'd remain fairly calm in similar circumstances however.....

I would love to claim to constantly maintain a Zen like calm but when I opened my secret Santa this year and the troops had put a dummy in I thought that's me sussed lol!

[The Loan Ranger]

Well I'm not holding out much hope for even the end of April seeing as though this great new system is not up and running after we allowed the Barmy into it, i've had a look through some of the responses and I'm not saying I'm short of cash just that I want to be paid what I'm entitled to, if that's not too much to ask


oh and the excuse 'it's a new computer system' doesn't really wash sorry folks as almost every trade out there has in the last 10/15 years gone through changes and had new computer systems but the it hasn't stopped the Shineys wearing their nice blue uniforms sat on comfortable offce chairs behind some nice desks using nice computers that all have access to the internet, or that could just be me being a little bit cynical in my cold office on my wonky chair waiting for some w*nker to get off eBay so I can have my turn on the PC to see if JPA is up and running...


(tin hat on LOL)

[woollymouse]

What's the internet at work? I'm a shiney and my clerks don't have access to it at their desks. Don't go giving wide ranging statements without first checking your facts. There are more Techies and Stackers out there with internet access at work than there are clerks with access.

[KingGuin]

What's the internet at work? I'm a shiney and my clerks don't have access to it at their desks. Don't go giving wide ranging statements without first checking your facts. There are more Techies and Stackers out there with internet access at work than there are clerks with access.

Ditto, only one of my has it.

[Humble Scribe]

Ditto, only one of my has it.

You're doing something wrong! All our accounts have IGS access - it's a necessity!!

[True Blue Jack]

We do too. We need it for work-related stuff (although like everybody else we use if for other stuff too). AFAIK it doesn't cost anything for C4I to enable IGS to a network PC so the only objection would come from local management.

[Mug?]

AFAIK it doesn't cost anything for C4I to enable IGS to a network PC so the only objection would come from local management.

Except for the £10 per account to set up ( idea why not just get one account and give us all the password?)
oh and the £10 a month charge BT get from central funds per account.

Unless its changed?
PS IGS is now known as EGS hope we don't put all the accounts in one basket.....I'll get my coat. (external gateway service - see you learn something everyday)....


IS IT JPAs fault the BACS system has failed?????

[PSFbeatch]

can i just say...

at the unit i am at operational allowance has been placed on hold as the JPA programmers are programming JPA so Unit PSFs can administer OA. It doesnt matter who you moan at until this is resolved which should be soon ie within the next week or two then you wont get your money any quicker. I doubt they will give you a cash payment either.

[Humble Scribe]

can i just say...

at the unit i am at operational allowance has been placed on hold as the JPA programmers are programming JPA so Unit PSFs can administer OA. It doesnt matter who you moan at until this is resolved which should be soon ie within the next week or two then you wont get your money any quicker. I doubt they will give you a cash payment either.

You're right, it should be with the enhancements that are due to happen on Monday under the Element Entries. PSF/Admin Offices are supposed to add the entry with the amount of days deployed. Then JPAC can well and truly wash their hands of any blame for non payment, "speak to your Unit HR!!"

[The Loan Ranger]

Well it's happened my pay statement has just popped up on JPA nad I'm due to be paid what is owed to me next Monday, don't want to get overexcited as it's not in my grubby little hands yet but I've got my fingers crossed...

Not bad as it's only taken 214 days to get it, another pat on the back for the wonderful JPA and the Admin bods at my parent unit !

[ICATQ]

(external gateway service - see you learn something everyday)....

There was me thinking it was the Enterprise Gateway Service.....

[busbyboy]

We are only one of two Stns RAF wide who QA their Admin proceedures. It has been well received by all concerned and I would suggest you will see it mandated once the Sec Sponsor publishes the future PFA footprint. Given the nature of our job there is no requirement for NCRs as our technical chums know them - a local proforma would suffice if, and when, anything so serious to warrant mention is discovered.

KG, as I may have mentioned to you after my recent QA Audit Skills course, this will apply to everyone in TG17 (and elsewhere: Ops/Aircrew?) very soon. The AP has already been rewritten to reflect this, and is on the web. Foreword written by some double-scrambled egg. And QOR (NCR as was) willl apply to all. It should be embraced, as it is long overdue.

QA Cell will become QCIT (Quality Continuous Improvement Team), involving all trades across the board.

So Leuchars is well ahead of the game!