Demotion to SAC

[Studley dangerfcuk]

Just heard off one of my pals, that Cpl techs are going to be demoted if the have not completed their BTEC. I could give you names and numbers as this seems not to be an idle threat. Problem I see is that I thought the BTEC finished last November. The only way to get it now if you have run out of time is to pay for it out your own pocket.

Has anyone else heard of this happening?????

Studley :PDT_Xtremez_09:

[The Masked Geek]

Looks like the golden age of the SAC(T) is over. :PDT_Xtremez_28:

[True Blue Jack]

Is the BTEC a pre-requisite for promotion? It's a serious question - as a shiney I don't know. If the answer is yes, then the system must pay for it, surely.

[The Masked Geek]

If the answer is yes, then the system must pay for it, surely.

The system did pay for it but some people obviously didn't finish in time.

[True Blue Jack]

The system did pay for it but some people obviously didn't finish in time.

Did they not finish because they couldn't be ar$ed or because they spent half their lives on various detachments? If the former, then perhaps they should be demoted. If the latter, there must be some grounds for appeal . . . ?

[monobrow]

Is the BTEC a pre-requisite for promotion? It's a serious question - as a shiney I don't know. If the answer is yes, then the system must pay for it, surely.

Now this is from an A/C techie, but heres the deal for us....

3 sections..... NVQ, BTEC and Core Skills.

NVQ was the only pre-requisite to promotion for us. The other 2 made up the Modern Apprenticeship. (I say was, as I was a good boy and did mine, and failed to give a $hit about it afterwards!)

When the BTEC was marked, and certificate was in your hand, they awarded Q-H1 (shineys, help me with what that is!!) I don't know what that Q is, but would be handy to know!!!

The Key Skills, isn't worth the paper it's printed on BUT completes a Modern Apprenticeship. No Key Skills = no Modern Apprenticeship.

Plus I was on the old old BTEC scheme (ran out something like 2005) so the goal posts may have been shifted a smidge between then and now!

[The Masked Geek]

Did they not finish because they couldn't be ar$ed or because they spent half their lives on various detachments? If the former, then perhaps they should be demoted. If the latter, there must be some grounds for appeal . . . ?

Hmm, plenty people on TCW when I was there managed to do OU degrees whilst spending half their lives on detachment so that argument is moot. :PDT_Xtremez_08:

[IHateTCW]

Serves them right if they couldnt be bothered to finish it then they shouldn't of been prometed in the first place:PDT_Xtremez_30:

[rugby then work]

I know of an SAC out in Cyprus who got promoted before completing his BTEC, he was given 12 months to complete it or lose his tapes.

[True Blue Jack]

Hmm, plenty people on TCW when I was there managed to do OU degrees whilst spending half their lives on detachment so that argument is moot. :PDT_Xtremez_08:

Point taken. Hang the bar stewards!

[The Masked Geek]

They may even start promoting JTs again too plug the gaps. :PDT_Xtremez_17:

[monobrow]

They may even start promoting JTs again too plug the gaps. :PDT_Xtremez_17:

woah woah woah sweet child of mine.... That sounds like common sense!!!

[IHateTCW]

Hope so still waiting on mine

[Mug?]

Wot gaps???
I thought we were about 150% manned?
If anyone got promoted to Cpl without having the self discipline and commitment to finish his training it would mean some muppet higher up gave them a good assesment.
We must be getting into this TG11 thing..
I heard they have a SGT floating around who has not even done their 9 yrs yet. So what chance do I have with my degree, 16 yrs experience ( 2 of those on various OOAs) maybe i need a web master job or maybe looking after an SAC on helpdesk. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they demote me to SAC as I have never been one!!
I suppose if you waited for everyone to actually be competent at their job we would be back in the 90's (when we had proper Cpls)

PS Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant........

[dunbar1983]

im an sac and it was defo told to every single one of us that to be a substansive cpl you needed to complete the BTEC, i know a couple of lads with thier tapes who were too lazy to do thiers. I hope they do get them taken off them as id feel it is unfair on the rest of us who actually completed ours!

[Cake or Death]

as far as i know they kept moving the goal posts. when i went thru tossford, the BTEC scheme i was on, you didnt need the BTEC to get promoted. (still did it as i wanted th money) but the next one that came out you do need it, then on the one after that you didnt, and the on after that you did. so who knows, soon the requirement might be that you have to have size 10 feet!

[skevans]

Something similar to this has already happened within my trade. The lazy to$$ers who couldn't pass there exams were threatened with demotion because they didn't hold the qualification after a 'suitable period'.

What is the particular apprenticeship you are talking about? I will find out some more about its standing in civvy street, I.E if it has been withdrawn or not.

[Studley dangerfcuk]

When I got my signal about getting promoted (Nov 05), it clearly stated that I needed to complete the BTEC, JMLC, TMT and Assim to get substansive rank of Cpl. This lad has done the latter but not the BTEC, so he is not substansive yet. The way I see it is that he might not have a leg to stand on if the tapes get taken away as he has not kept his part of the contract. I think that there could be quite a few junior Cpls in TG3/4 who might be in for a shock. I know of another 3 who couldn't be arsed to complete it.

Studley :PDT_Xtremez_21:

[monobrow]

Well if they're not substansive, then not a leg to stand on!! They knew the score and didn't bother!! Congrats on your sub-NCO career lads!!!

[MrMasher]

As far as I am concerned (kicks over the apple cart) they shouldnt even be SAC(T)'s if they dont have their qualifications.
When they used to send out proper technicians thay came with BTEC's and some previous experience. These days we get half trained unqualified mechanics.
You should be an SAC until you have done your NVQ, BTEC and key skills. Simple as that.
Then you may become a technician ( SAC with the (T) for technician!)
Then you should do at least 3 years as an SAC(T) until you can go on a promotion board.
Not like the absolute pr1cks I see who have their tapes and have been in for less than say 5 years and couldnt command themselves out of bed, let alone anyone else.
Dont get me wrong here. I am not saying that all of the SAC(T)'s are sh1ite, much in the same way (hate to admit it) that some of the appos were ok.
But lets be honest here, the system is absolutely rubbish and has been altered too much too often.
I supervise several SAC(T)'s at work and to think that their next rung up the ladder is my rank!!!!!!
Its not just a rank thing. Its also tech knowledge and experience. Who do they come to? Thats right, the Cpl's. What happens when it's them as Cpl's and someone comes to them with a problem?

Something needs to change...............................

[monobrow]

Then you should do at least 3 years as an SAC(T) until you can go on a promotion board.

To be honest, I was expecting that to be the norm (being one of the earlier SAC(T) types) to fit in with the system of JT promotions. Ohhhh how wrong was I!!!

I know of SAC(T)'s who collected their tapes same month as the 4.5 yr bonus. But there are also some of us hard workers that don't go SNCO munching for 6's and specs!!!

[Studley dangerfcuk]

I take my hat off to you MrMasher. You have an uncanny knack of pointing out the obvious, unlike alot of people higher up the rank structure that thought if they promote an 18 month SAC to Cpl ( there is one at Spud) the system will work. Blind leading the blind.
By the way I took the scenic route to Cpl, I might have taken a touch over 10 years to get here but hey ho. I got here and got my pension lined up now.

Studley :PDT_Xtremez_28:

[The Panther]

Yet another reason why they should of never changed the mech/mech mech/tech system. I agree with Mr Masher and the others. if you can't be bothered with doing the distance learning then why should you get your tapes? I'm not even getting started on the whole baby SAC(T) Cpls out there, but i will say JTs still rule !:PDT_Xtremez_15:

[MrMasher]

I take my hat off to you MrMasher. You have an uncanny knack of pointing out the obvious, unlike alot of people higher up the rank structure that thought if they promote an 18 month SAC to Cpl ( there is one at Spud) the system will work. Blind leading the blind.
By the way I took the scenic route to Cpl, I might have taken a touch over 10 years to get here but hey ho. I got here and got my pension lined up now.

Studley :PDT_Xtremez_28:

Shortcutter!!!! Took me 11 1/2 years, ha ha ha.

By the way Eng tech El types, I do apologise for posting in here. I didnt realise it was in your bar until i'd posted it.
All the same, some valid points I believe!
Mainly, I fecking detest slackers who think that they are owed promotion and do nothing but go round bleating all day "when I get my tapes............."
At least now I can say to them when you get your tapes you'll have em just about long enough to give em back!

[8:15fromOdium]

Yet another reason why they should of never changed the mech/mech mech/tech system. I agree with Mr Masher and the others. if you can't be bothered with doing the distance learning then why should you get your tapes? I'm not even getting started on the whole baby SAC(T) Cpls out there, but i will say JTs still rule !:PDT_Xtremez_15:

'fraid you're wrong Mr P. They should never have changed the Mech, DE, Appo system. Everything since has been a complete case of Cake & Arse with various Eng Sponsors coming up with sub Baldrick cunning plans to 'modernise' TG 1&2.

My solution - there was this bloke called Trenchard, he wrote a memorandum - Eng Sponsor should read it. It was right then and it is right now. The time is right for ...

... The Return of the Appo's

(Yes it did take me a year to get my tapes)

[MrMasher]

Yet another reason why they should of never changed the mech/mech mech/tech system. I agree with Mr Masher and the others. if you can't be bothered with doing the distance learning then why should you get your tapes? I'm not even getting started on the whole baby SAC(T) Cpls out there, but i will say JTs still rule !:PDT_Xtremez_15:

Missed this one...........

Mech mech and mech tech system was absolute turd!

A couple of GCSE's make you a technician? I think not. How about some common sense and aptitude for all things mechanical?
The same goes for appo's!!!!

How about...............

1. We join up in the trade we want to be in.
2. Then we get some basic trade training
3. Then we get posted and gain experience in our chosen trade.
4. We do a minimum amount of time and gain yearly assessments in our first post before becoming eligible for entry onto a further training course.
5. Attend a further training course which gains a technical qualification thus enabling the person to be a "technician"
6. Posting time. Minimum time period/assessments and a minimum of two different tours before becoming eligible for promotion board. The minimum of 2 tours to promote experience of other camps/practices for potential NCO's.
7. JMLC and TMT.
8. Posting elsewhere upon promotion of Cpl.
9. And so on throught out the ranks but without the 2 tour minimum for potential SNCO promotions. They should have gained the experience through time served (unlike the cheating air traffickers!!wanker )

Any thoughts?

[The Panther]

Gents I bow down to your greater knowledge, being a smalley i can only base my comments on the events/systems i have experianced. As a mech/mech myself i done alright and now i'm off somewhere else where i will get paid better for my abilities.

Do you think they will ever get the teckie system sorted ?

[mad_collie]

Gents I bow down to your greater knowledge, being a smalley i can only base my comments on the events/systems i have experianced. As a mech/mech myself i done alright and now i'm off somewhere else where i will get paid better for my abilities.

Do you think they will ever get the teckie system sorted ?

Up until a few years ago it was fine, and worked well.

I dont think there is a way back from the current situation.

[monobrow]

Do you think they will ever get the teckie system sorted ?

Yup, it'll probably end up being a very very big contract to BAE :PDT_Xtremez_42: (sorry, forgot this is the peanuts section again)

[MrMasher]

Do you think they will ever get the teckie system sorted ?

Not whilst there are a bunch of useless to55ers in charge who look out for number1.

Good luck in the future mate.:PDT_Xtremez_28:

[Cake or Death]

As far as I am concerned (kicks over the apple cart) they shouldnt even be SAC(T)'s if they dont have their qualifications.
When they used to send out proper technicians thay came with BTEC's and some previous experience. These days we get half trained unqualified mechanics.
You should be an SAC until you have done your NVQ, BTEC and key skills. Simple as that.
Then you may become a technician ( SAC with the (T) for technician!)
Then you should do at least 3 years as an SAC(T) until you can go on a promotion board.
Not like the absolute pr1cks I see who have their tapes and have been in for less than say 5 years and couldnt command themselves out of bed, let alone anyone else.
Dont get me wrong here. I am not saying that all of the SAC(T)'s are sh1ite, much in the same way (hate to admit it) that some of the appos were ok.
But lets be honest here, the system is absolutely rubbish and has been altered too much too often.
I supervise several SAC(T)'s at work and to think that their next rung up the ladder is my rank!!!!!!
Its not just a rank thing. Its also tech knowledge and experience. Who do they come to? Thats right, the Cpl's. What happens when it's them as Cpl's and someone comes to them with a problem?


rant over sorry if offence is cause wrong section etc
Something needs to change...............................



i agree with most of the things said here. Being one of god special SAC(T)children myself, i actually got off my arse and did my NVQ BTEC etc and got my AMA.

Wot gets my back up is when old sweats who are quite right to be mildly annoyed that they havent been promoted, keep saying well i should of been promoted not him cos i've been in longer. I understand that people dont bother anymore if they have, but unfortunatly thats counter productive and shooting them selves in the foot. The ones that i have worked with that do this are quite frankly whinging oxygen thiefs who cant even wipe their own rear end, let alone be trusted to supervise someone. one i know got his actings as a kick up the arse , but still carried on like he used to, being late no commitment etc. I have found that the ones that dont whinge are the ones that should of been promoted and thats just life and ****e happens.

Promotion in my humble eyes is something that is EARNT and not a given. and that should be based ONLY upon you abliity to do you job NOT cos you spend one day a week at work and the rest studying/secondry duties. That is the most annoying thing there is. As for tech knowledge well you may know everything about tornado for example butget posted to chinooks, OOPS LAC time for a while you learn, but you still ahve the basic skill sets paperwork etc. but go to tornado your a god. its all swings and roundabouts.
And sadly the way the rank system is at the minute CPL is my next rank. i dont make the rules i follow em. personally i dont want it yet but if offered ill take it as i cant go up anymore paybands now. lifes a bitch

[mad_collie]

Yup, it'll probably end up being a very very big contract to BAE :PDT_Xtremez_42: (sorry, forgot this is the peanuts section again)

Prepare for incoming mono, and an explanation of peanuts.

[The Panther]

Not whilst there are a bunch of useless to55ers in charge who look out for number1.

Good luck in the future mate.:PDT_Xtremez_28:

100% agree with you on that one Mr Masher, i took the only route that makes a point, vote with your feet. Best of luck to everyone staying in the mob, its a real shame the way things are going, you people deserve so much better.

[IHateTCW]

i agree with most of the things said here. Being one of god special SAC(T)children myself, i actually got off my arse and did my NVQ BTEC etc and got my AMA.

Wot gets my back up is when old sweats who are quite right to be mildly annoyed that they havent been promoted, keep saying well i should of been promoted not him cos i've been in longer. I understand that people dont bother anymore if they have, but unfortunatly thats counter productive and shooting them selves in the foot. The ones that i have worked with that do this are quite frankly whinging oxygen thiefs who cant even wipe their own rear end, let alone be trusted to supervise someone. one i know got his actings as a kick up the arse , but still carried on like he used to, being late no commitment etc. I have found that the ones that dont whinge are the ones that should of been promoted and thats just life and ****e happens.

Promotion in my humble eyes is something that is EARNT and not a given. and that should be based ONLY upon you abliity to do you job NOT cos you spend one day a week at work and the rest studying/secondry duties. That is the most annoying thing there is. As for tech knowledge well you may know everything about tornado for example butget posted to chinooks, OOPS LAC time for a while you learn, but you still ahve the basic skill sets paperwork etc. but go to tornado your a god. its all swings and roundabouts.
And sadly the way the rank system is at the minute CPL is my next rank. i dont make the rules i follow em. personally i dont want it yet but if offered ill take it as i cant go up anymore paybands now. lifes a bitch

That may be true for a small minority but when you have been acting cpl OOA spent the past 4 yrs getting reccomended for promotion (not to mention the 3yrs needed to be reccomended for Further Training) and then have someone two years out of training overtake you can be a wee bit soul destroying. You also say promotion should be earnt and not a given, the whole point of this thread was to say that lads (or lassies) that couldnt be arsed to get their BTEC were getting their tapes stripped off them.

[monobrow]

Prepare for incoming mono, and an explanation of peanuts.

Off Topic They are them small salted things Off Topic

OK then, NON A/C Techies. If it's below TG2 then pfffffff whatever! :PDT_Xtremez_30:

(just kidding!)

[OK..Igiveup]

Yup, it'll probably end up being a very very big contract to BAE :PDT_Xtremez_42: (sorry, forgot this is the peanuts section again)

Dont bite dont bite dont bite dont bite.......AAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHH
I aint no Peanut!!!!!!!

By the way substitute EADS and serco for BAE and you will be about right.

I think the Mech/ DE route was the best (I am biased) a few GCSEs at the time showed an ability to learn hence why DEs are better than mechs
Cpls now just seem to be doing the JT job. I dont seem to have changed responsabilities now from my first shift as JT a decade ago, looking after an SAC, I just look after (support) a few junior Cpls.

[Cake or Death]

Exactly the ones that didnt do their BTEC should not have been promoted as they hadnt completed the a component that made them elidgeable and therfore did not earn their promotion. it was given. someone who had all the required ticks in the box should have been promoted.

but as said in an earyer post some courses didnt have to have their btec for promotion, this could be a massive system/jpa cockup. which probably more likely the answer.

[rugby then work]

Yup, it'll probably end up being a very very big contract to BAE :PDT_Xtremez_42: (sorry, forgot this is the peanuts section again)

For BAE substitute DCSA and your not far wrong.

I'll take it you're not trying to provoke but OH MY GOD this is NOT the peanut section.

Eng TECH ie TG3, probably the worst insult you could give us is to call us peanuts. ::/:


Beaten to it but the point stands

[monobrow]

I'll take it you're not trying to provoke but OH MY GOD this is NOT the peanut section.

Yeah, my bad.......

Sorry!!!

[rugby then work]

Been looking into the requirements for promotion as it's SAC assessment time at the moment and I thought all the SAC's needed to complete the distance learning package for their BTEC before being eligible for promotion (been out of the loop for the last 3 years in Cyprus), but the 3 SAC's in my section, all with around 12-18 months out of Cosford all have theirs from their course. Seems to have gone full circle and Cosford are making sure the required elements are completed before they leave (or has it changed again). But as i posted earlier for those that have yet to complete their BTEC promotion is available and they can do their BTEC later, which as far as I'm concerned is promoting laziness.

As for the whole "It was better in the old days" ie before they started training SAC (T)'s and we used to get SAC's (Mechs) and JT's be they DE or Fitters, You've got my vote.:PDT_Xtremez_14:

[OK..Igiveup]

I blame the parents, or in this case the spineless best buddie SNCOs. Surely a quick
'SAC Bloggs is a great airman but has not managed to find the time/ motivation to complete his BTEC'
in the 6000 would have alerted the board the guy is not suitable to manage personel/ tasks if he cant get his own life sorted.

[MAINJAFAD]

Been looking into the requirements for promotion as it's SAC assessment time at the moment and I thought all the SAC's needed to complete the distance learning package for their BTEC before being eligible for promotion (been out of the loop for the last 3 years in Cyprus), but the 3 SAC's in my section, all with around 12-18 months out of Cosford all have theirs from their course. Seems to have gone full circle and Cosford are making sure the required elements are completed before they leave (or has it changed again). But as i posted earlier for those that have yet to complete their BTEC promotion is available and they can do their BTEC later, which as far as I'm concerned is promoting laziness.

As for the whole "It was better in the old days" ie before they started training SAC (T)'s and we used to get SAC's (Mechs) and JT's be they DE or Fitters, You've got my vote.:PDT_Xtremez_14:

The original plan with the SAC(T) was that the BTEC was required for promotion back in 1998 when the course and Trade Structure was being developed, However due to lack of people getting the distance learning package finished and a shortage of two stripes the requirement of the BTEC was dropped (plus the qualification that was selected by Locking was stopped by the qualification organisation). As for the current BTEC coming out of Cosford, its a short one (6 modules I believe) and not the one got with the distance learning package on the original Eng Tech El SAC(T) qualification to Cpl route (which was short compared with the one I got back in the 1980's out of Locking). Bring back the Promex, that’s what I say (TG12 have done that already).

[MrMasher]

[QUOTE=rugby then work;71576]
Eng TECH ie TG3, probably the worst insult you could give us is to call us peanuts. ::/:
[QUOTE]

And I thought they were all window lickers........ummmm I meant to say they all hate being called window lickers.......or something...........

Hee hee hee hee


Anyway, OK I give up said "Cpls now just seem to be doing the JT job. I dont seem to have changed responsabilities now from my first shift as JT a decade ago, looking after an SAC, I just look after (support) a few junior Cpls"

Spot on.

[rugby then work]

Think the promex may have to come back in with the dumbing down of the trade, it's not the fault of the lads coming out of training but the general level of ‘technician?’ arriving in sections now has seriously gone down hill over the last few years. We still get some bright sparks but they are becoming fewer and further between.

I'm still looking for a bit of guidance on how we're supposed to deal with the OM's with respect to streaming them towards CIS Tech or IM, I asked the question of our Flt Lt the other day and he didn't have a clue. Anyone out there know if we're going to comment on their 6000 or is it going to be done some other way?

[Dingbat]

As a SNEC, the thing that concerns me most, and something not addressed yet is the lack of General Service Knowledge they show. I am constantly being asked questions any competent Cpl would know, usually from having done some time in the RAF. As an LAC (many moons ago), the only time I saw my SNEC was to get a shoeing for being a dumb fcuk (usually deserved). If I wanted to know anything I went an saw my shift Cpl. A cpl really was a demi-God in those days, not just 'mate'.
Technical knowledge can be taught, after all some do spend time out of trade and then get promoted, but GSK? Nope, that needs time in to learn.

[Dingbat]

Anyone out there know if we're going to comment on their 6000 or is it going to be done some other way?

In the 'Comment on career development' box, a simple sentence to the effect that 'completion of their BTEC should be their priority to enable them to be eligible for promotion' gets the message across I would imagine. If you feel that their not having completed the BTEC is an issue, you can always use it to show how they get a lower than expected promotion recommendation, either in the individual comment boxes or the summary. One thought though, if this has not been mentioned in the six monthly assessments it wouldn't be right to put it in their annual. You have to give them the chance to address any shortcomings in the 6-monthly. Mention it in passing though during the interview and if they haven’t completed it come next year, you can hang them out to dry for lack of commitment etc.

Not teaching to suck eggs btw, just my opinion.

[MrMasher]

As a SNEC, the thing that concerns me most, and something not addressed yet is the lack of General Service Knowledge they show. I am constantly being asked questions any competent Cpl would know, usually from having done some time in the RAF. As an LAC (many moons ago), the only time I saw my SNEC was to get a shoeing for being a dumb fcuk (usually deserved). If I wanted to know anything I went an saw my shift Cpl. A cpl really was a demi-God in those days, not just 'mate'.
Technical knowledge can be taught, after all some do spend time out of trade and then get promoted, but GSK? Nope, that needs time in to learn.

Kind of what I was saying earlier.
These days the ranks dont really matter do they. Cpl and below do the work and Sgt and above are adminners, apart from when you need independant checks.
Should just bin ranks and make us producer and manager.
I remember getting slapped for giving the charlie papa lima a bit of lip when I were a little un. Used to happen about once a week regardless of whether I gave him any lip or not!
These days the rank of Cpl is just a joke.
Anyone remember GST/JMLC and all the things a Cpl is responsible for? Lets be honest now..........has anything really change on promotion? Are we entrusted with all these new responsibilities? Only when someone screws up and fault is being applied!!

[rugby then work]

In the 'Comment on career development' box, a simple sentence to the effect that 'completion of their BTEC should be their priority to enable them to be eligible for promotion' gets the message across I would imagine. If you feel that their not having completed the BTEC is an issue, you can always use it to show how they get a lower than expected promotion recommendation, either in the individual comment boxes or the summary. One thought though, if this has not been mentioned in the six monthly assessments it wouldn't be right to put it in their annual. You have to give them the chance to address any shortcomings in the 6-monthly. Mention it in passing though during the interview and if they haven’t completed it come next year, you can hang them out to dry for lack of commitment etc.

Not teaching to suck eggs btw, just my opinion.

Dingbat, I was asking about the streaming of Operator maintainers towards CIS Tech or IM and how that was going to be controlled. Are we as SNCO's going to get a say on their 6000's or is PMA going to use a dart board to decide who goes onto further training as a CIS tech and who continues as an OM/IM.

Already commnt on the lazy b*ggers who can't be arrsed to complete their BTEC.

[Realist78]

"Anyone remember GST/JMLC and all the things a Cpl is responsible for? Lets be honest now..........has anything really change on promotion? Are we entrusted with all these new responsibilities? "

So where do we start if we want to change things? Is it the new, shiny, post JMLC Cpl who asks for additional responsibilities, or is it the SNCOs who don't empower the Cpls? From what I have seen over many years it's the Cpls increasingly sitting back and wanting to be more like SACs/JTs. Admittedly, certainly in the techie world, things are a bit more laid back but that doesn't mean that discipline etc has to disappear.

[Dingbat]

I was asking about the streaming of Operator maintainers towards CIS Tech or IM and how that was going to be controlled. Are we as SNCO's going to get a say on their 6000's or is PMA going to use a dart board to decide who goes onto further training as a CIS tech and who continues as an OM/IM.

Can't say for sure as all the posts where I am are tagged CIS Tech, but I'd hope we get an input. If they are rotated on a 6 (ish) monthly basis to give them an idea of all the facets of the trade, shouldn't we be doing a truncated 6000D on them? This would then be included in their personal file for whoever finally makes the decision. Means more writing for us, but that goes with the job.

Realist: you can only go so far with trying to empower the Cpls but when you keep getting let down, you end up treating them like SAC/JT's.

Bring back the shoeing I say :PDT_Xtremez_32:

[Mug?]

Off Topic By the time we get to the first OMs getting streamed we will be on JPA appraisals, which wont even be tailored to RAF life, let alone a trade. I hear they got steamrolled by the army (again) I even heard a rumour that the secondary duties box has gone and all the number cats have changed to just a letter grade . ie A for effort C for weapon accuracy?


Back on topic
I had to have certain pre reqs for promotion english was one i think surely this still applies and would take BTEC into account

[I_Luv_TG3]

IHateTcw - You must be really s#?t if you haven't picked up your tapes yet. Can't think of another J/T in the trade. You been a bad lad?