How long before you kill someone?

[fat lazy techie]

How long is it going to be before some gets seriously hurt, or worse killed by bad practice from muppets. Yet again, today, I witnessed a muppet drop the ramp of a herc without checking the nose bay properly for personnel. A quick look up the centre line from the ramp is no good as the nose wheels will easly hide someones legs. It isn't the first time it has happened, and it won't be the last. For farks sake check the nose properly, cos if you drop the nose on me by lowering the ramp it will result in a nose bleed and watering eyes for the idiot who does it.
If a muppet of some ineligence, hard to believe I know, reads this take it onboard and teach these idiots properly. It only takes the once...........

[Billy Whizz]

You are having a bad shift aren't you! Yet again the Muppets star! No doubt this was on a see in when you're other favourite trade (Loadies) tend to hand the aircraft over to the Movers and not the see-in crew! :mad:

[fat lazy techie]

Not a see in but the farkin' de blank.
It wasn't the best shift, pi$$ing rain and windy with barely enough manpower for the workload. Still lean hasn't made too much of a mess of things.

[Billy Whizz]

Even worse! And being a de-blank not a see-in there wouldn't have been any pies to eat either.

Won't be long before Lyneham gets de-leaned and reverts back to 24/30 & 47/70! Hey, why not call in A & B Line!!!!!!!!! :confused:

[sausage2]

Won't be long before Lyneham gets de-leaned and reverts back to 24/30 & 47/70! Hey, why not call in A & B Line!!!!!!!!! :confused:


What a top quality , inovitive idea, but I've got a better plan, Instead of splitting them up between J and K models, we could split them into to 2 sqn's one does all the long hrercs, and the other sqn does all the short Hercs. It hasn't been tried yet, and is not as stupid as some of the ideas that the simpler lot have dreamed up. :confused:

As for muppets, grrrrr :mad:

[Billy Whizz]

What a top quality , inovitive idea, but I've got a better plan, Instead of splitting them up between J and K models, we could split them into to 2 sqn's one does all the long hrercs, and the other sqn does all the short Hercs. It hasn't been tried yet, and is not as stupid as some of the ideas that the simpler lot have dreamed up. :confused:

As for muppets, grrrrr :mad:

About the only idea that hasn't!!!! Thing is, where will all the extra manpower come from to man the split!!! Answer - nowhere!! It will revert to where we were a year ago but with less blokes! Happy Days :mad:

[M_for_Mother]

If a muppet of some ineligence, hard to believe I know, reads this take it onboard and teach these idiots properly. It only takes the once...........

I´m no Muppet, but surely you mean inteligence?

´Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone´ all that, what, what?!!

MFM

[fat lazy techie]

MMother, it was a long hard shift so I think I can be forgiven for a slight lapse in spelling. It still doesn't excuse the movers for their potentially dangerous actions.

[Bluntend]

Really Mother,

I´m no Muppet...
Brevity - yep!

Clarity - yep!

Accuracy - Hmmm? :D

I'm guessing your staff work's always immaculate, eh? Why is it that when ever someone has a good point to make, others that don't resort to nit-picking? ;)

[M_for_Mother]

oh its a good point, no doubt, but I suspect that any Mover reading his post is going to go straight to ´f off, ignore´ mode, because of his hostile tone.

It does sound as if the fella described was negligent, but having a go at the Movers as a group will immediately alienate you. Its exactly the same if someone had made a generalisation about my branch, you ignore the merit of what was said and fixate on the banter.

Having seen this site mature from just a few members, I find it quite disappointing that we are going down the Mover-bashing street...again.

I do hope, FLT, that you took the young scalleywag to task over his incompetance, I´m sure that a Flight Line bolly in front of his mates would be a much more effective preventative tool!

MFM

[Bluntend]

Can't help but agree with you on yor last point - maybe if more of us took it upon ourselves to 're-educate' where necessary we'd have fewer mistakes made. We've seen the 'state of new recruits' threads and the criticism that we are all happy to dish out. Perhaps if we took a bit more ownership of the problem we could keep on top of things. Just a thought.

[Twonston Pickle]

"Ownership" - sounds dangerously like management speak creeping in there. Seriously, it's a good point and maybe we should all do somthing about the problem but maybe we are wary of ending up on the receiving end of a bullying complaint or worse just for being robust.

[Bluntend]

Yeah, sorry. That last one was a bit cringeworthy but "ownership" was the only word I could think of. :o

[Stax]

Obviously MTM is sitting in his office somewhere, bored and listless, nitpicking peoples spelling mistooks. He wouldn't recognise a "bolly" if it jumped up and bit him on ther "bo11ocks" because as an Orifice (note, he said branch not trade, and he asked for an officers thread, the impertinence of the boy!) he has hoary old FS' and WO's to dish out the proper bo11ock1ngs. All he was taught at Cranners is to be pink, fluffy and ensure the chaps have washed their feet!(although in the old days OC's used to have to inspect their troops skivvies, it used to be in QR's)

[shoutingwind]

its not just the movers who try and kill lineys. a few months back i almost got squished in serval interesting but painful ways all in one day-

1- Growbags vs. liney take 1: we went out to de-blank the a/c and while i was up the ladder with head in the intake (having a little look) the captain decides it would be a jolly good idea to unfeather the prop. luckly i feel down to ladder toot sweet and didn't get my brains splashed across the pan. when i went to complain that they'd almost brained me the capt. shrugged. :mad:

2- Growbags vs. liney take 2: on the very next see off i was marshalling a herc from bay 29. i was standing ahead of the a/c, in front of disused south and rather than following my marshalling and following the yellow lines the capt drove the a/c directly towards me at a fair rate of knots :eek: . so i have to run out of the path of a large a/c with 4 spinning blades of death and only just make it on to the grass as the herc roars past. being late for your slot time does not excuse murder of lineys.

3- movers vs. lineys: sme old same old. mover lowers ramp while i was putting nose pin in. its not difficult people, if you don't put the pin in and the nose wheel collapses then the ramp is going to see saw up and hit the thoughtless movers

so all in all that was a bad day.

[M_for_Mother]

I know you adore me Stax, I bet you´ve got little piccies of me in your dug-out!

I´m just not gay, or ´out!

[Sherriff]

F.L.T & shouting wind

Its simple really fella's make the movers understand that when they do something
utterly stupid they are made to look utterly stupid.
Its about time these silly and dangerous occurences stop before someone gets well and truely hurt.
Re-training of those who consistantly ignore the correct SOP's should be in place now! This also applies to those who do the training, are your work mates carrying out the correct working practices.
obviously not ask F.L.T and shouting wind.
:eek:

[wobbly]

I agree, the problems will only be addressed if you let them know about it. Next time it happens submit a 'Human Factors' report and highlight the incident/s. This will get the incident thrown up the chain of command and highlight that things need to be done to rectify work practices. Also, come and see your SNCOS' and let them know too...........no point in getting yourself worked up and frustrated that it keeps happening if your not prepared to actually do something about it.

Just imagine if somebody actually got injured or killed if some of these events happened again, would you feel a tad guilty that you hadn't highlighted it when it happened to you?
I know I would.

I can understand that at present it feels like no bugger listens, but this system does work to your advantage and should be used more often.

As for the unfeathering of props while your in the intake. Did you say that you fell off the ladder because of it? If so did you report this to your line manager? You would have been laughing as its not in their SOP's to unfeather the props for starts. In fact they are supposed to fill in a F726 for aux feather pump operation if they do use it.......another procedure that is ignored.

Sherrif, please understand that this isn't a Movers or aircrew bashing thread, its just something that has ticked these people off, and rightly so. Yes, Techies have been guilty of cocking up before, but thats usually rectified and not a re-occurring thing because the crews/ncos usually report it. The fact that these personnel have to be supervised by Juniors and Seniors to load/offload makes me wonder whats going wrong. As for the techies on the line's, they are not supervised at all when it comes to flight servicings and usually they get treated like second class citizens when they come to confront the SNCO/JNCO when something like this happens. Lets face it, who is going to win? the SAC or the Sgt?

So all I can say is what Ive said above...................come and see the SNCO's and we will help you get it sorted.

Just remember that we all bat for the same team..........usually ;)

[fat lazy techie]

I made my feelings known to the persons responsible at the time, as I have done every time. I guess some people are too thick to take it in as it still happens. I also informed the grown ups around at the time.
Now where the fark do we keep the human (used in the most basic sense) factors reports in J3? ;)

[shoutingwind]

it was more a serious slid than a fall. i did tell the grown ups, and went to submit the form but i was too shaken to remember which a/d and capt it was.

next time though i'll bounce the b@stards! its nice to know someone belives the little guys, most the times if the crews mess up they just kick their heels and swear it wasn't them.......

[rightthen]

So what do you do when a muppet drops the ramp while your in the nose wheel bay fitting the nose pin.

Well the official line is the Nose Pin must be fitted prior to any ground operations. That includes droping the ramp!!

I am sure if you got the muppets name and went to see the guys in the Training Flight they would do most of the work for you ie. taking the Eng Auths of them, making sure they were re-trained and let them know the error of their ways.

Or go and see the JENGO with there name and get them to follow it up.

Or fill out a Murphy report

After hearing that some idiot of and Air Eng decided to start the GTC while the Liney had his head up an intake while de-balanking its not just the muppets you need to watch out for.

Said Eng was reported to OC Eng and OC Ops.

Failling all the above just e-mail the station comader and let him deal with it.

Hope this help.

If there are any spelling mistakes sorry but i am dyslexic.

[woody]

It pains me that others in my trade still let this happen, its not hard to send the duty LAC up front for a proper check. The health and safety of all is more important than a gash short cut. We have enough people out to get us, without us maiming each other.

If this happens again indeed let the training guys know and they will take action, usually involving the culprit giving the warrant a damn good listening too.

Otherwise a good kick in slats for the gash Tw*t who did it usually works wonders for reinforcing good practices.

[redeye]

i was down in the falklands on a c17 last year and the tw*t of an atlas driver decided he didn't need to be marshalled and ripped the lip of the ramp. this caused us to depressurise over the pond fu*king nice one

Are movers accountable for Any thing???

(oh they broke the falklands 747 this week for the third time in a year)

[transporttype]

It pains me that others in my trade still let this happen, its not hard to send the duty LAC up front for a proper check. The health and safety of all is more important than a gash short cut. We have enough people out to get us, without us maiming each other.

If this happens again indeed let the training guys know and they will take action, usually involving the culprit giving the warrant a damn good listening too.

Otherwise a good kick in slats for the gash Tw*t who did it usually works wonders for reinforcing good practices.

Agreed, and given that the other transport station can operate a simple system where the bloke i/c the see in calls in the movers once the pins are in, why cant it happen here?

Aircraft chocks in, power on, pins in, OK for movs/catering etc to enter the exclusion zone...simple really.

TT

[Captain Gatso]

Years ago, when I was on transport at Brize. I was a saftey man on the headset, on a ground run. With an engine running. I noticed out of the corner of my eye, an LDV with a set of pack steps approaching the side to which the engine was running. Anti colls whirring mereily, to advertise the fact to the most simple chimp, that a ground run was going on. This muppet thought of driving straight into the area, to get rid of his steps. I never moved faster in all my life. Disconnected, ran up to the approaching LDV with arms waving. the guy stopped after seeing me. I never gave so much abuse to someone in all my life. His excuse to me was, " I was told to put the steps there". After that they always phoned us before they put steps near an aircraft.:PDT_Xtremez_32:

[Max]

It's good to know that it's still happening :PDT_Xtremez_42: It was always happening when I was at Lyneham on B-line.

By luck I managed to bump into the new OC eng down route and when I enquired as to whether he actually read the reports or just shredded them he asked what I was on about so I pointed out this very problem, I thought no more of it.

Some months later whilst talking to a mate who was still there he remarked that a load of movers had had their auth's removed for this very job not long after. I thought it was quite amusing then but obviously as usual it only takes a while before things go back to the way they were unfortunately.

Maybe a bit of advice on PPrune might get their attention (the loadies that is).

[cooperman]

How long is it going to be before some gets seriously hurt, or worse killed by bad practice from muppets. Yet again, today, I witnessed a muppet drop the ramp of a herc without checking the nose bay properly for personnel. A quick look up the centre line from the ramp is no good as the nose wheels will easly hide someones legs. It isn't the first time it has happened, and it won't be the last. For farks sake check the nose properly, cos if you drop the nose on me by lowering the ramp it will result in a nose bleed and watering eyes for the idiot who does it.
If a muppet of some ineligence, hard to believe I know, reads this take it onboard and teach these idiots properly. It only takes the once...........

A Valid point well made (and I'm a MOVER). I would just like to say that It most of the cases when I have gone out to an imbound, it is in fact the loadie and not the movers who lower the ramp at the earliest oppertunity to enable us (the movers) to see whats on the frame so that the loadie can leave at the earliest opertunity. (Though we are by no means perfect)

Perhaps there needs to be some comunication between the Linies and the movers before anything happens? Also between the ground engine, supervising the engines shutting down, and the Linies. They are still on head sets after all and can inform the loadie not to put his hands anywhere near the ramp controls for a couple of mins. ON FEAR OF PAIN???

This is not to say that linies are perfect, the ammount of thime i have been on a frame trying to winch some thing off, and you lot start stepping over the winch wire. Which is often under immense strain, you would be if you had several thousand kilos of weight pulling you tight!

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

Cooperman

[pueblos]

Say want you want to mate, its a free world. I've seen many a Techy try to kill a Techy, or perhaps they were just trying for you:raf:

Anyway, as to the problem at LYN, S**T happens, I guess until you learn to talk to Movers and Movers learn to talk to Techys these problems will just carry on and on:PDT_Xtremez_15:

Its not just LYN, it happens at BZZ too. Many a time the Tech heads don't bother to check that Movers or Suppliers are working inside the rear of the aircraft.::/:

As I said thats life:PDT_Xtremez_25:

Keep smiling

[Yandards]

Sounds like that hasnt changed since I was there then..

..thing being the muppets should not be allowed on it until the see-in crew have finished with it, they are not qualified to say it's safe to do so or not.

It's only because they are in a rush and want to get some sleep..