Promotion to FS (Not Likely)

[rugby then work]

Apparently the next board (the combined TGIV board) is looking for 36 FS's, that's 36 from all Ex TG11 and TG3 Sgts & CT's (about 44 CT's left). Looking at the trade lists that's about 450/500 people who are eligible for promotion, not much hope for us TG3 Sgt's then as you can bet that the board will manage to promote an even number of ex TG11's and ex TG3's. With 44 CT's left that doesn't leave much room for any Sgt's.

TG11/TG4 IM have been busy stacking up the FS's over the last couple of years with plenty of 5 year Sgt's promoted so this 1st combined board has left us with a meagre 36 slots (including I presume the reserved slots PMA have been releasing to bump up numbers).

The info in bold came from a telephone call between the desk at PMA and a Sqn Ldr out on a station, the rest is just my thoughts/opinions.

I could be proved wrong, but with the way things have been going in recent years I very much doubt it.

[OK..Igiveup]

This board will include the last 15 "windfall" FS slots, that they created when we lost the CT (was my goal when I joined up)
I hope they would allocate these slots to purely TG3. Then the remainder, 21 if your figures are correct would be split by percentages of total trade size, ie 3000ish TG3 total manpower to 1500ish TG11 manpower so we get 2/3rds and they get a third. ie 14 more slots for us and 7 for TG11. (all this is taken from the CISMST presentations on their website)
As anyone over 30 seems to be a FS in their trade anyway this should make sense to any normal person.
We had to do fitters courses and go through the JT rank as well as some guys in CT ranks.
Plus I would think a guy who has a fair whack of experience in different situations would be the obvious choice when the board sits.

What I have to ask though is who will be the trade specialist?
I bet I could guess!!!

And this will all cascade down to us Cpls........:PDT_Xtremez_34:

[mad_collie]

The biggest bugbear is the fact that they continued to promote Sgt peanuts when they closed the door to Chf Tech.

Apparently we're all on a level playing field, and wont be affected by the advent of TG4 - so why are the peanuts getting preferential treatment over us?

(Maybe I need a stable belt, clippy cloppy shoes and a chiphat?):PDT_Xtremez_30:

To continue promoting the TG11 blokes was just fcuking wrong.

As OK says, it will come down to the Cpls, as the majority of TG3 Sgts will leave in the next few years and they will reap the benefits.

Still - saved on redundancies I suppose . . . . .

[referee806]

The biggest bugbear is the fact that they continued to promote Sgt peanuts when they closed the door to Chf Tech.

Apparently we're all on a level playing field, and wont be affected by the advent of TG4 - so why are the peanuts getting preferential treatment over us?

(Maybe I need a stable belt, clippy cloppy shoes and a chiphat?):PDT_Xtremez_30:

To continue promoting the TG11 blokes was just fcuking wrong.

As OK says, it will come down to the Cpls, as the majority of TG3 Sgts will leave in the next few years and they will reap the benefits.

Still - saved on redundancies I suppose . . . . .

No it isn't, mind you it had come with a set of greens attached to it and a 4 year posting to boot. Ere then again, whats the number for the drafter............

[rugby then work]

The biggest bugbear is the fact that they continued to promote Sgt peanuts when they closed the door to Chf Tech.

Apparently we're all on a level playing field, and wont be affected by the advent of TG4 - so why are the peanuts getting preferential treatment over us?



Got to agree MC, that's the real stab in the back. They carry on promoting 5 year (and occasionally 4 year) TG11's to FS but TG3 Sgt's with more experience are barred from promotion. Now we're on a level plying field (bit of a slope on it methinks) TG11's will continue to be promoted even though there are still loads of CT's left and some very senior TG3 Sgts around.

[NFTR]

This board will include the last 15 "windfall" FS slots, that they created when we lost the CT (was my goal when I joined up):

I don't understand that, if they are are windfall slots, surely you've gained? I know a fair few chiefs who are now FS's who would still be chiefs if TG3 had carried on as before.


As anyone over 30 seems to be a FS in their trade anyway this should make sense to any normal person.

Your're joking right?

Plus I would think a guy who has a fair whack of experience in different situations would be the obvious choice when the board sits.

So you are saying that all ex-TG3 bods have more experience than ex-TG11 with similar Seniority?

What I have to ask though is who will be the trade specialist?
I bet I could guess!!!

Surely for a FS board, the specialist officer will be Eng CE, (I may be wrong, I think WO's only sit on boards up to SGT), hardly a disadvantage to you?

[rugby then work]

It remains to be seen who gains from the windfall slots, as for the CT's who are now FS's and would still be CT's under TG3, I have to disagree with that one. I know of no ex TG3 CT's who are now in FS slots that were previously the sole domain of TG11 FS's, where as there are now ex TG11 FS's in slots that were previously held by TG3 FS's. So the CT's would have been promoted anyway (along with a few more to fill the slots now taken by ex TG11 FS's).

[NFTR]

It remains to be seen who gains from the windfall slots, as for the CT's who are now FS's and would still be CT's under TG3, I have to disagree with that one. I know of no ex TG3 CT's who are now in FS slots that were previously the sole domain of TG11 FS's, where as there are now ex TG11 FS's in slots that were previously held by TG3 FS's. So the CT's would have been promoted anyway (along with a few more to fill the slots now taken by ex TG11 FS's).

I didn't say that ex-TG3 Chiefs were getting promoted into TG11 slots. I said I know of a fair few chiefs who dipped in (despite the Chief rank being royally shafted) as the windfall slots allowed them to be promoted, early, into legacy FS TG3 slots. Under the old money, many would still be chiefs.

Unfortunately, your sponsor rolled over during the skills mapping phase.

[rugby then work]

I didn't say that ex-TG3 Chiefs were getting promoted into TG11 slots. I said I know of a fair few chiefs who dipped in (despite the Chief rank being royally shafted) as the windfall slots allowed them to be promoted, early, into legacy FS TG3 slots. Under the old money, many would still be chiefs.

Unfortunately, your sponsor rolled over during the skills mapping phase.

The whole trade sponsor thing has been discussed else where on the goat, but I agree our trade did roll over on the large part and I can't blame the Fat One for supporting his own trades best interests. At the end of the day it's done and we've got to live with it. (can't help the odd moan though).:PDT_Xtremez_21:

[referee806]

It remains to be seen who gains from the windfall slots, as for the CT's who are now FS's and would still be CT's under TG3, I have to disagree with that one. know of no ex TG3 CT's who are now in FS slots that were previously the sole domain of TG11 FS's, where as there are now ex TG11 FS's in slots that were previously held by TG3 FS's. So the CT's would have been promoted anyway (along with a few more to fill the slots now taken by ex TG11 FS's).

Go and have a butchers at Lyneham C4I Sqn.

[hobbes]

I notice that the results from the 'combined' Sgt/CT board were never published? All the talk from the fat one about how there would be sgts promoted on the board? Is this another rumour to go with the bus load of nurses at the naafi bop?

I havent heard any confirmed sgts being promoted, but have heard of lots of peanuts, with less seniority than the TG3 sgts. Just another example of how the TG11 trade sponsor has royally ****ed the TG3 sgts over.

[Mug?]

I also seem to remember there was a sgt to FS board last year, that just picked up TG11. {I know there was a FS board just for tg3 but that was part of the getting rid of CT rank.}

In theory as we were all TG4 then, then surely SGT TG3 and C/T TG3 should have been on that board too?
It was asked at one of the roadshows but there was no answer they were going to get back to us!!!

I also saw the briefs and the last 15 windfall slots ( ie those to compensate the whole trade due to CT being withdrawn) will be going on a joint TG4 board. Which is clearly wrong, and caused a lot of mutterings. I am waiting for the results and and then going down the redress route, I should have done it when the first board sat.
Doesnt really affect me cos I will be gone just after but feel I need to do something before I go.

[hobbes]

I also seem to remember there was a sgt to FS board last year, that just picked up TG11. {I know there was a FS board just for tg3 but that was part of the getting rid of CT rank.}

In theory as we were all TG4 then, then surely SGT TG3 and C/T TG3 should have been on that board too?
It was asked at one of the roadshows but there was no answer they were going to get back to us!!!

I also saw the briefs and the last 15 windfall slots ( ie those to compensate the whole trade due to CT being withdrawn) will be going on a joint TG4 board. Which is clearly wrong, and caused a lot of mutterings. I am waiting for the results and and then going down the redress route, I should have done it when the first board sat.
Doesnt really affect me cos I will be gone just after but feel I need to do something before I go.

I hope the fat sponsor reads this so he can see what is coming, I think there are quite a few looking into doing the same.

[The Masked Geek]

Heard from a certain desk that apparently TG3 Sgts have a weighted system which means, come board time, a top notch TG3 Sgt will be weighted so that he compares with the dross of the CT rank.

So basically, the RAF seems to be discriminating against the TG3 Sgt.

E.G

TG11 Sgt 5H, 5H, 5H, 5S, 6S may get promoted.

TG3 Sgt 5H, 5S, 6S, 6S, 6S may not get promoted as he can't actually have a better assessment score than a sh1t Chf Tech.

[OK..Igiveup]

I know there was the weighted system last time, but I thought it was a level playing field again this time?
There was a DIN or something about it. The Tradewise that came out eventually had something about it too I think but it also told the SACs not to wear the merc badges and also to wear them so not sure if that should be trusted.
Glad you could get through to the desk, are they still on specific hours? No good if you OOA or in Cyprus.

[League Any Time]

I know there was the weighted system last time, but I thought it was a level playing field again this time?
There was a DIN or something about it. The Tradewise that came out eventually had something about it too I think but it also told the SACs not to wear the merc badges and also to wear them so not sure if that should be trusted.
Glad you could get through to the desk, are they still on specific hours? No good if you OOA or in Cyprus.

The system was waited last time but is supposed to be open comp this time. (If you can beleive the TS) As for PMA they make their hours up as they go along

[hobbes]

Heard from a certain desk that apparently TG3 Sgts have a weighted system which means, come board time, a top notch TG3 Sgt will be weighted so that he compares with the dross of the CT rank.

So basically, the RAF seems to be discriminating against the TG3 Sgt.

E.G

TG11 Sgt 5H, 5H, 5H, 5S, 6S may get promoted.

TG3 Sgt 5H, 5S, 6S, 6S, 6S may not get promoted as he can't actually have a better assessment score than a sh1t Chf Tech.

That is pretty much what I have been told as well - it's bordering on constructive dismissal and it is discrimination.

On top of that I have heard that 30 TG3 Sgt slots are to be disestablished at Tosford, so a lot of Cpls who thought they were getting their 3rd will be disappointed.

Word is they will offer some SAC/JTs and cpls promotion if they remuster to IM to fill the gaps, but you can guarantee that TG11 will take priority again.

Here is the best thing though - if you take the promotion and remuster to IM, you can go OOA as an IM, but PMA will still have you earmarked as a CIS Tech! So you can qualify for twice as many OOAs! The peanuts will only get IM OOAs.

Just one more stab in the back from the fat knacker and his sidekick at the trade sponsor desk.

[mad_collie]

I dont know how anybody can prove constructive dismissal - it's obvious that they didn't want to give us redundancy and they hope natural wastage will take care of the problem.

The case about discrimination has to be worth a look at, it is well documented that they weighted the Chf Techs against the Sgts (it looks like it will be 2 boards now) and the peanuts have been promoted twice since the promotions to Chf were stopped.

That must be worth following up as active discrimination?

[Mug?]

If there are many CTs left imagine how you would feel if a 5 year SGT sits on the same board as you a 5 Year CT who did his own 5 yrs as a SGT. And then add to it some 5 yr TCOs who has been doing Charity work and shuffling paper in and out of the safe in the BUSY commcen while smooching the boss.

I still think the best way would have to have given the FS to all the 3yr + CTs(or whatever the cut off would have been to not affect figures too much) and even syphoned some of the TG11 FS slots over to at least lesson the blow.
Okay some of the new CTs would have been gutted but they would still be ahead of most of the Sgts...

[AlwaysTG3]

Its an absolute fcuking disgrace, they way they have treated the TG3 sgts.

I have never come across such an ill conceived plan(?) in all my time in the RAF.

Because this has been so badly handled at the TS level, it has effectively killed the trade off. If they thought there were problems after the AD/AF/TC amalgamation - they havent seen anything yet. Most of the posts that they have designated IM had TG3 people in them for a reason - they needed somebody technical to fill the role.

The amount of snecs that are walking on their 22 year point is through the roof now - no promotions and as has been mentioned, discrimination. The skills gap that will be left in the trade will be hugh, glad I wont be around to see it.

I bet the TS gets a commendation for completely fcuking our trade up, and saving his trade.

[Rothgar]

I

The amount of snecs that are walking on their 22 year point is through the roof now.

Hey at least they made it to snec, when I left TG11 nearly seven years ago promotion prospects in my trade had always been abysmal. TG3 were always promoted quicker.

Obviously things have changed in favour of ex TG11 (TG4) now.

[rugby then work]

That is pretty much what I have been told as well - it's bordering on constructive dismissal and it is discrimination.

On top of that I have heard that 30 TG3 Sgt slots are to be disestablished at Tosford, so a lot of Cpls who thought they were getting their 3rd will be disappointed.

Word is they will offer some SAC/JTs and cpls promotion if they remuster to IM to fill the gaps,
but you can guarantee that TG11 will take priority again
Here is the best thing though - if you take the promotion and remuster to IM, you can go OOA as an IM, but PMA will still have you earmarked as a CIS Tech! So you can qualify for twice as many OOAs! The peanuts will only get IM OOAs.

Just one more stab in the back from the fat knacker and his sidekick at the trade sponsor desk.


I heard that one straight from the fat ones own mouth, he wasn't talking to me mind I was rubber necking his conversation with my boss.::/:

[Mug?]

There was a signal that went around, last year that asked for volunteers, to switch but it was emphasised that you would still be a CIS tech as far as DWR was concearned. Not much other info though.
From what i can see all the IMs are teaching techies to suck eggs at Cosford.

[League Any Time]

Hey at least they made it to snec, when I left TG11 nearly seven years ago promotion prospects in my trade had always been abysmal. TG3 were always promoted quicker.

Not any where I have been especially with two extra ranks until TG(waste of time)4

[fishface]

Just checked with the desk - There are 160 + A grade candiates for the promotion to FS. The reason this dosent work for me is that I have 7 years assessments of 5 and High rec's and that got me in as a B grade.

So if you have a similar profile you probably won't get looked at

[mad_collie]

Just checked with the desk - There are 160 + A grade candiates for the promotion to FS. The reason this dosent work for me is that I have 7 years assessments of 5 and High rec's and that got me in as a B grade.

So if you have a similar profile you probably won't get looked at

Is that number the combined total? (TG11 & TG3)

By the way - have a look here (http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=121)and say hello.

[fishface]

Indeed it is - cos it's a TG4 board, so that's us and the PNuts

[rugby then work]

Spoke to the desk today and according to them there were 78 A grades that were boarded for promotion. (different to what's already been posted on here) and the board is to be ratified tomorrow. They are looking for between 34 an 38 promotions to FS.

[mad_collie]

Spoke to the desk today and according to them there were 78 A grades that were boarded for promotion. (different to what's already been posted on here) and the board is to be ratified tomorrow. They are looking for between 34 an 38 promotions to FS.

I heard the same about the numbers thay are looking for.

78 A grades? That was a fecking harsh pre-board, given the numbers involved. I'd like to know the percentages of ex TG3:TG11.

[rugby then work]

Results are out now; apparently 35 of the 36 selected were CIS Techs.

[Mug?]

If true...(I still can't believe it after reading it a few times)
then it shows some sort of common sense and proof that the system works now....
I think the WO board was a bit of a farce and there to keep the TG11s in favour.

All we need now is them to establish a few more SNCO slots for us to keep the flow of CPLs through to encourage the new TG4 OMs to choose the CIS tech route, and keep the techie side alive.