Qualities of an occifer

[crow123]

Hello All,

I wonder if someone would be so kind as to help me out. I have my Board at Cranwell soon and have lost my notes on the qualities and duties of an RAF officer. As far as I can remember these were two lists of five standard answers to be given at the interview, along the lines of;

Qualities:

1.Dress and deportment (a high standard off)
2. The ability to influence others/ good communication skills
3.Self confidence
4.Courage (Moral / Physical)
5.????????

Duties:

1.Morale
2.Dicipline
3.Management
4.Welfare
5.Leadership



If anyone could clarify the textbook answers for these their time would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Crow

[Realist78]

If you genuinely concentrate on duty No1, then you'll find a lot of the rest will fall into place. Ignore it at your peril!

[Swingwinger]

If you genuinely concentrate on duty No1, then you'll find a lot of the rest will fall into place. Ignore it at your peril!

Yer....but.... no.... but......yer ....but ....no....but?????

[TheHogwartsBEngO]

Don't forget loyalty and integrity. They are in the 1st line of the commissioning statement!

[Realist78]

Don't forget loyalty and integrity. They are in the 1st line of the commissioning statement!

Couldn't agree more, as long as they are part of a two way street!

[TheHogwartsBEngO]

Couldn't agree more, as long as they are part of a two way street!

goes without saying - but those are part of the textbook answer to the original question - trust me.

[Realist78]

goes without saying - but those are part of the textbook answer to the original question - trust me.

If that's the case, how is it that for a large number, amnesia sets in before the first posting?

[enginesuck]

Crow maybe your organization skills might be a quality to look at....... Your notes today is an airmans Gen Ap tomorrow !!!!

[True Blue Jack]

Just remember that at OASC you will be sat alongside a large group of equally determined candidates, most of whom will rattle off the textbook answer. If you want to make an impact at interview, then spend some time thinking about what you want to achieve as an officer, and then work out what qualities you possess which will make that possible.

[Orwell]

There is no text book answer. What sort of qualities would you want from your boss? What would you expect from a junior manager? Just tell them with some honest conviction. :PDT_Xtremez_31:

[Rectifier]

Agreed, don't try and be a text book officer and fall into the same mould as 80% of them who are only interested in progressing their own careers because they lack the fortitude to stand up and make a decision that may not be liked by their peers. The RAF is rapidly going down the toilet and I'm of a firm belief that the rot set in from the top a long time a go!!!

[Swingwinger]

Agreed, don't try and be a text book officer and fall into the same mould as 80% of them who are only interested in progressing their own careers because they lack the fortitude to stand up and make a decision that may not be liked by their peers. The RAF is rapidly going down the toilet and I'm of a firm belief that the rot set in from the top a long time a go!!!

Totally agree with you Rectifier. The O's at the top look down and think they see smiley faces but when we look up all we see is fxxxing ar$eholes!!!

[crow123]

Thanks for your help guys; I would have to agree with the argument of putting forward my own ideas based loosely on what I have been told. The chap at my AFCO interview did say keep it to a rote answer and you can't go too far wrong but I do want to stand out so I think putting a little bit of me across can't hurt.

Now all I have to do is convince the board I'm not an inept ****...any ideas?

[8:15fromOdium]

Crow, go and get some practise interviews before you go to OASC. I don't know what station you are at but your TDO should help you, its part of their primary duty. Also go and see some Junior Officers who have recently been through Cranwell, ideally from your chosen branch(es) and above all join the local Commissioning Club (if there isn't one form one!). Get briefed up on the interview format and practise, practise, practise.

Good Luck

[crow123]

Unfortunatly I'm a STAB not a crab at the moment so I don't have the oppertunity. However I have made an appointment to visit my nearest station to discuss matters with a few of the officers from my selected areas of interest.

[Vim_Fuego]

Hello All,

I wonder if someone would be so kind as to help me out. I have my Board at Cranwell soon and have lost my notes on the qualities and duties of an RAF officer. As far as I can remember these were two lists of five standard answers to be given at the interview, along the lines of;

Qualities:

1.Dress and deportment (a high standard off)
2. The ability to influence others/ good communication skills
3.Self confidence
4.Courage (Moral / Physical)
5.????????

Duties:

1.Morale
2.Dicipline
3.Management
4.Welfare
5.Leadership
If anyone could clarify the textbook answers for these their time would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Crow

To be honest YAWN!!! Your not supposed to know the book yet really as you haven't had the lesson...

What do you think right now with the life experiences you have had and your sense of right or wrong should be important to a leader of people? If you could sort out in your own head a list of what you believe to be important in your own words then run them by a few people it might score just as highly as you regurgitating the party line...For instance no-where in the above drab list is there 'a sense of humour'...Now one of those can be really helpful sometimes and if I was sat facing you at the OASC I wouldn't discount it as an attribute...

[Seymour Tw@tt]

To be honest YAWN!!! Your not supposed to know the book yet really as you haven't had the lesson...

What do you think right now with the life experiences you have had and your sense of right or wrong should be important to a leader of people? If you could sort out in your own head a list of what you believe to be important in your own words then run them by a few people it might score just as highly as you regurgitating the party line...For instance no-where in the above drab list is there 'a sense of humour'...Now one of those can be really helpful sometimes and if I was sat facing you at the OASC I wouldn't discount it as an attribute...

5 star answer, Vim. This could account for some of the dross impersonating RAF officers in certain places...

:PDT_Xtremez_35:

[enginesuck]

I must admit that a lot of JOs I have been in contact recently really do seem to be clones of one another, and I really do wonder if any of them have an individual personality.... I often wonder if they are held back personaly by their jobs and are deep down inside sh1tting themselves that they are going to get found out if they display normal behaviour ! A sense of humour should be up alongside the rest of the required attrubutes IMHO...

[airframe doctor]

Just for once I'd like an officer to admit when he was wrong and that his guys do actually know what they are talking about thus backng them up in certain situations.
You & I know this will probably never happen so............I'll get my coat.

[Part Time PFOM]

IMHO One of the best qualities that an officer can have, is the ability to listen to others, regardless of Rank. They should not assume that because the are of the commisioned bretheren that they know everything and that anyone with a different point of view is a cretin.

I have seen, over my long and undistingished career, many JO drop a boll*ck or two(often with hillarious results)because they wouldn't listen.:PDT_Xtremez_30:

[gemarriott]

I was once told

An Officer thinks he knows what he wants doing

A SNCO knows how to do it

A CPL gets it done

An airman does it

But the Warrant Officer is always the boss

Seemed about right from my experience.

[TheHogwartsBEngO]

To be honest YAWN!!! Your not supposed to know the book yet really as you haven't had the lesson...

What do you think right now with the life experiences you have had and your sense of right or wrong should be important to a leader of people? If you could sort out in your own head a list of what you believe to be important in your own words then run them by a few people it might score just as highly as you regurgitating the party line...For instance no-where in the above drab list is there 'a sense of humour'...Now one of those can be really helpful sometimes and if I was sat facing you at the OASC I wouldn't discount it as an attribute...

"Having an appropriate sense of humour" is actually one of the attributes assessed on an OJAR.

::P:

But sadly many JOs end up charismaless drones because it is seemingly drummed out of you at IOT - basically the 'less-able' of the DSs don't like a smart-arse (ie anyone funnier than them) - so you tend to get in the sh1t for being funny. That leads you to 'toe the line' and 'be the grey man'.

It's only after a while on a real stn that you realise you can chill a little and have some charisma. Srangely enough, the worst offenders in my opinion were Ex-Airmen officers who seemed to have something to prove - Ex graduate JOs are like rabbits in headlights for the first year or so and then settle down.

[Realist78]

How about recruiting exclusively from the ranks? At least the @rse 'n' elbow quiz would be easier to pass!:PDT_Xtremez_28:

[PeanutPhil]

Dont forget though, if you have been circumsized you will never be allowed to join as an officer, because as we all know you have to be a complete penis to be an officer!!!:PDT_Xtremez_28:

[Swingwinger]

How about recruiting exclusively from the ranks? At least the @rse 'n' elbow quiz would be easier to pass!:PDT_Xtremez_28:

For sure. The direct to Cranwell lot from University could give you the square root of a jam jar but couldnt open it!!!

[Orwell]

OASC does it's best to kick the personality out of cadets. If JOs don’t work closely with airmen then it can take years for the misconceptions created to be reversed. Usually by this time the realisation that ‘like promotes like’ has set in. The new course which started last autumn is supposed to create a closer relationship between JOs and seniors . Has it worked?

[8:15fromOdium]

How about recruiting exclusively from the ranks? At least the @rse 'n' elbow quiz would be easier to pass!:PDT_Xtremez_28:

Here, here - and SNCO pilots, lets face it they have no flight commander responsibilities until they make Sqn Ldr, works very well in the Army.

[NotAnIDOYet]

Working very closely at the moment with phase 2 trainees just out of Cranditz. There seems to have been a monumental mindshift in their instruction recently, they are unafraid of asking SNCOs for advice and on the most part seem to listen.

That is perhaps the most important quality for a JO. SNCOs are not there to make life difficult, Appendix 27 to QRs gives us the responsibility for JO development and guidance. Only by doing this can we reeducate the orficer classes to our way of thinking instead of them thinking they are the best thing since Mr Hovis' sharp knife.

[referee806]

IMHO One of the best qualities that an officer can have, is the ability to listen to others, regardless of Rank. They should not assume that because the are of the commisioned bretheren that they know everything and that anyone with a different point of view is a cretin.

I have seen, over my long and undistingished career, many JO drop a boll*ck or two(often with hillarious results)because they wouldn't listen.:PDT_Xtremez_30:


Especially, when they have spent £2400, on a mobile phone, calling back to the UK, thinking it was there own personal phone.

Junior Officer 0 (And a bill for the above amount)

JNCO 1:PDT_Xtremez_30:

[True Blue Jack]

Working very closely at the moment with phase 2 trainees just out of Cranditz. There seems to have been a monumental mindshift in their instruction recently, they are unafraid of asking SNCOs for advice and on the most part seem to listen.

That is perhaps the most important quality for a JO. SNCOs are not there to make life difficult, Appendix 27 to QRs gives us the responsibility for JO development and guidance. Only by doing this can we reeducate the orficer classes to our way of thinking instead of them thinking they are the best thing since Mr Hovis' sharp knife.

I couldn't agree more. A few years ago a Chf Tech mate of mine got commissioned and binned IOT halfway through because they were being indoctrinated into believing that SNCOs were not to be trusted, that they didn't know what they were talking about, etc. The principle was sound - the last thing you want is a JO who is intimidated by the guys under his command. But there were always a few who took it literally.

[8:15fromOdium]

I couldn't agree more. A few years ago a Chf Tech mate of mine got commissioned and binned IOT halfway through because they were being indoctrinated into believing that SNCOs were not to be trusted, that they didn't know what they were talking about, etc. The principle was sound - the last thing you want is a JO who is intimidated by the guys under his command. But there were always a few who took it literally.

I was on the IOT after that Chf Tech. I was one of 3 ex SNCOs on my flight, to her credit our Flt Cdr had us all in and told us she would use our experience and as long as none of us 'screwed up' we would pass out at the first attempt. We didn't (screw up) and we did (pass out). The problem with the old IOT was it depended far to much on the personality (or lack of) the Flt Cdr, I was lucky.

The real problem I think is OASC its output is never subjectively QA'd. I'd love to see a comparison of ex-rankers against graduates over the first couple of tours they do.

[pollyShine]

To be honest YAWN!!! Your not supposed to know the book yet really as you haven't had the lesson...

What do you think right now with the life experiences you have had and your sense of right or wrong should be important to a leader of people? If you could sort out in your own head a list of what you believe to be important in your own words then run them by a few people it might score just as highly as you regurgitating the party line...For instance no-where in the above drab list is there 'a sense of humour'...Now one of those can be really helpful sometimes and if I was sat facing you at the OASC I wouldn't discount it as an attribute...

HERE HERE well said

[Reformed Scribbly]

" The problem with the old IOT was it depended far to much on the personality (or lack of) the Flt Cdr, I was lucky.

The real problem I think is OASC its output is never subjectively QA'd. I'd love to see a comparison of ex-rankers against graduates over the first couple of tours they do."

I'm sure that you would see honest opinions from most GDE entrants saying that they were the proverbial rabbits in headlights in the first couple of years. Such a study would probably prove what you've all being saying throughout this thread, that inexperience and the expectations to perform do change people's personalities and how they deal with problems.

I left IOT with no comprehension of how to deal with the rest of the RAF, or any idea of what I should do when arriving on unit. Which is an inditement of the old system. I'm not looking for sympathy as I know where to find that in the dictionary.

What would be more interesting is to see what difference, if any there would be between ex-rankers and GDEs in 3rd and 4th tours, and promotion times?

That would be the test.

[tag_lincoln]

1. Good to see that the general consensus is that the new IOT course is building a better raport between baby officers and their SNCOs. What it does require though is high quality SNCOs at Cranwell in the DS jobs, dep Flt Cdr etc. There is a generally a good bunch here at the moment but when postings start to occur it is vital that they are replaced with equally enthusiastic individuals, not just the Lincolnshire mafia with no interest in officer training.

2. There have been some excelent ex rankers go throught he system whilst I've been at IOT but also some real bad eggs, certainly a couple were sent away to whence they came but my point is just that every hairy that arrives at IOT is not cut out to be an officer. The two I have in mind in particular were not by all accounts that good as airmen either.

[EngProp]

1. Good to see that the general consensus is that the new IOT course is building a better raport between baby officers and their SNCOs. What it does require though is high quality SNCOs at Cranwell in the DS jobs, dep Flt Cdr etc. There is a generally a good bunch here at the moment but when postings start to occur it is vital that they are replaced with equally enthusiastic individuals, not just the Lincolnshire mafia with no interest in officer training.


As I understand it the new IOT structure has offr cdts dealing with SNCOs a lot more all the way through. Before the only non-comissioned types they came into contact with were the Regt Instructors in the Basic Phase, the Regt FS drill instructors and the PTIs. Now there's an SNCO deputy Flt Cdr dealing with them thoroughout their cse. Also, the final 1/3 of the cse treats them more like JOs than cdts which should hopefully allow some sensible patterns of behaviour to develop before they hit phase 2. These were some of the aims of the new cse as briefed to me when it was being introduced and the comments above seem to indicate it's working...

[tag_lincoln]

EP,

That's pretty spot on. There is a good mix at the moment of trades of the FS and it needs to stay that way. It also needs for them not to become stale and not stay there forever but we will have to wait and see on that one.

Term 3 is more grown up, not only to give the cadets the chance to develop but also to find out the ones that go potty when the leash is off. The balnace will always be a delicate one with changing civvys into offrs and personal development not always having the same training requirents.