View Full Version : Fcuking Assimilation . . . I'm still TG3
mad_collie
20-01-2007, 00:39
They have finally dicked me for it (pre-req before OOA).
Hopefully it is only four days of egg sucking.
Apparently, the SAC/JT/Cpl course is being chopped to two weeks.
If we all cancel/stall them enough, maybe we can get it reduced further?
Has anybody gained anything from being made TG4?
Wing boy
20-01-2007, 01:01
well you asked so I will answer. I gained. I'm now on the high pay band
(duck for incoming)
rugby then work
20-01-2007, 01:07
Just got back from a week at Tossford, the AT course that was running at the same time as my SMS course were actually more bored than I was! Just been dicked myself for AT, thought I may get away with it but no exemptions for SNCO's we've got to do at least 4 days.
The SAC/JT/Cpl's course that was running was cut to 2 weeks but the next is back up to 3 weeks, don't think they can make their minds up
The_last_of_TG3
20-01-2007, 18:39
I am still TG3
I do not see why it takes 2 weeks when I can do this course online?
TG4 Assimilation for TG3 (http://www.teststeststests.com/typingtest/)
Cool that means I can't go away if I turn it down....(if they ever offer it me)...!!!
When they compare a worker (as I am/maybe was?) with a no job Ex TG11 who spent his whole shift doing charity work and organising paintballing and go karting every assesment time.
Then add the problem of us CIS TECHs being overmanned when compare to the IM stream (assume they thought it takes more of them to do the job).
I think my promotion prospects are pretty much little more than poor.
Why degrade myself from an Electronic Engineering technician to a CISystems Technician.
mad_collie
25-01-2007, 20:31
Well, done the course, and what a waste of fcuking time.
The TG4 brief was the only relevant part of the course.
More was gained from having 12 of Locking's finest sat around discussing the trade and what is happening, than the syllabus of the 'assim' training.
Any TG3 SNCOs that have to go and attend this - use the time to find out what is going on in the trade while you are there. Talking to SNCOs from AD/AF/TC backgrounds from the various locations in the RAF was actually a benefit. We achieved more in the teabreaks/lunch time and Off Topic chats.
We suggested to the instructors that a TMT style forum would be more beneficial, so we could get our heads around what is going on, but were shot down in flames. The party line for everything is: 'we do this because the Trade Sponsor tells us to'.
Thank God that the group that were there this week were all good lads (and the token Doris).
But at least FS Training Wing is a jolly nice chap and good egg to boot.:PDT_Xtremez_31:
I have my opinion of the sponsors, and it matches those others of my type who have met them on their travels.....
It made me laugh when THEY eventually announced THEY decided we didnt need to do the comms package as THEY thought of most of us more than capable, but a few weeks before THEY were insistant it was needed.
They have finally dicked me for it (pre-req before OOA).
Are you off anywhere nice??
I have my opinion of the sponsors, and it matches those others of my type who have met them on their travels.....
As a peanut (a proper ex-Tel peanut) I'm no fan of the way the whole TG4 debacle has been handled. However, our Trade sponsor (I'm talking Tate & Lyle level here) was a hell of a lot more pro-active than yours and we have dipped in with the extra wedge.
The way the Chief issue was handled was almost an embarrasment. Watch this space for when the AT programme is complete. Pay review, low band for all of TG4. I can't see how they will prevent this happening.
mad_collie
26-01-2007, 00:46
As a peanut (a proper ex-Tel peanut) I'm no fan of the way the whole TG4 debacle has been handled. However, our Trade sponsor (I'm talking Tate & Lyle level here) was a hell of a lot more pro-active than yours and we have dipped in with the extra wedge.
The way the Chief issue was handled was almost an embarrasment. Watch this space for when the AT programme is complete. Pay review, low band for all of TG4. I can't see how they will prevent this happening.
Unfortunately, when it was all kicking off, TG3 did not have anybody in the post (it was gapped). The peanut trade sponsor got away with whatever he could.
Can't knock him for it, he was defending his trade and he did a good job.
By the time they eventually put someone in the slot for us, the damage was done.
Yep, that's about the size of it. I didn't realise that KC only joined the party once the presents had been unwrapped.
Unfortunately, when it was all kicking off, TG3 did not have anybody in the post (it was gapped). WO Fat Boy got away with whatever he could.
Can't knock him for it, he was defending his trade and he did a good job.
By the time they eventually put someone in the slot for us, the damage was done.
Because we missed out on redundancies cos of the whole TG4 thing (check out the FMDLS now). Chubbs would have been better off declaring trade obsolete and letting them all get redundancy.
I would have prefered them all to get a healthy 'fcuk off' wedge and left, rather than them getting high band and inflated ego's.
Don't get me wrong some of my best mates are TCO's, but its just not right.
They couldn't have found a weedier (is that a proper word?) person to represent us though.
There were never going to be redundancies in the first 2 tranches because of the uncertainty over the whole DCSA takeover and then DII.
In fact, a little bird told me that DII Increment 2 has still not been contracted. ATLAS have to be the preferred bidder, purely because it would be suicide for the government to look elsewhere at his stage. Apparently both sides are at each others throats over the delays to Increment 1. ATLAS say the MOD keep moving the goalposts, the MOD say ATLAS can't hit the target.
It'll end in tears! ::P:
Whats the latest, have heard it may go down to 2 weeks for Cpls (ex TG3), have also heard the idea of skipping a few weeks if you have done the courses already, is out the window and we all have to do the whole 3 week block.
What happened to the April deadline to get us all through?
What effect is it going to have on the promotion boards. Do we have an IM board and a CIS tech board?
I have also heard the new JPA assesment will be in this year and has a courage/ bravery box???? WTF???
So many questions....
referee806
27-01-2007, 20:35
Well, done the course, and what a waste of fcuking time.
The TG4 brief was the only relevant part of the course.
More was gained from having 12 of Locking's finest sat around discussing the trade and what is happening, than the syllabus of the 'assim' training.
Any TG3 SNCOs that have to go and attend this - use the time to find out what is going on in the trade while you are there. Talking to SNCOs from AD/AF/TC backgrounds from the various locations in the RAF was actually a benefit. We achieved more in the teabreaks/lunch time and Off Topic chats.
We suggested to the instructors that a TMT style forum would be more beneficial, so we could get our heads around what is going on, but were shot down in flames. The party line for everything is: 'we do this because the Trade Sponsor tells us to'.
Thank God that the group that were there this week were all good lads (and the token Doris).
Having done it from my side of TG4 (Peanut), I can honestly say, what a load of boll***. As for the attitude of the instructors, had to point out to one very up his own ares civviy, that I was an NCO in the RAF, and not some AC on basic training.
The Co*k tried to report me to the FS training, well that just lit the blue touch paper and to battle we went, needles to say the civvy had to appologise.
Top and bottom of this is that it was a complete waste of time. That is apart from the pay!!!:PDT_Xtremez_28:
OK..Igiveup
28-01-2007, 18:55
How many of us are left then?
I know they are still doing the TG11 as a few guys from here are away but it all seems to have gone quiet on the TG3 lads.
I thought they were doing it in date order yet a lot of the young uns seem to have done it but not me?
Dont get me wrong I aint in no rush....
rugby then work
28-01-2007, 20:53
There's still plenty of TG3 courses going on, a SAC/JT/Cpl course finished a week ago and I know of 2 Sgt's courses in Feb. I haven't done mine yet, think I'm down for one in March.
mad_collie
31-01-2007, 11:19
Whats the latest, have heard it may go down to 2 weeks for Cpls (ex TG3), have also heard the idea of skipping a few weeks if you have done the courses already, is out the window and we all have to do the whole 3 week block.
What happened to the April deadline to get us all through?
What effect is it going to have on the promotion boards. Do we have an IM board and a CIS tech board?
I have also heard the new JPA assesment will be in this year and has a courage/ bravery box???? WTF???
So many questions....
I have been told by a reliable source that all the courses for SAC/JT/Cpl have been cut to 2 weeks, but the amendment to the course hasn't reached PMA yet.
theneverendingjug
02-02-2007, 22:41
There's a bit of paper been posted in the corridor outside our office saying that the SAC/JT/Cpl course has now been dropped to two weeks... Handy that, don't reckon I could afford three weeks in Albrighton.
Still not been done either. But of the three Cpls in our place, only one's been there - and that was for OOA. I think all the Sgts have been now.
I'm quite looking forward to it - AT does mean Adventure Training, Doesn't it?
rugby then work
02-02-2007, 23:20
There's a bit of paper been posted in the corridor outside our office saying that the SAC/JT/Cpl course has now been dropped to two weeks... Handy that, don't reckon I could afford three weeks in Albrighton.
Still not been done either. But of the three Cpls in our place, only one's been there - and that was for OOA. I think all the Sgts have been now.
I'm quite looking forward to it - AT does mean Adventure Training, Doesn't it?
Indeed it does, don't bother taking any uniform all you need is a pair of Speedo's for the swimming and some walking boots.:PDT_Xtremez_15:
I had to do assim a few weeks ago and it was an insult.
Some of the guys there had been running IT sections for years, and had to endure the bollox that was spouted by the instructor.
To rub salt into the wounds, the civvy had the gall to inform us that because he had an MCSE, he was not a muppet - that really endears an ex TG11 Cpl (who didn't make snec) to a group of TG3 sncos.
We queried the content of the course, but got shot down each time by the Tossford mafia who hid behind the excuse 'the trade sponsors make us do it'. Its about time somebody there had the bollox to stand up to the trade sponsor and bin it, but nobody has the moral fibre to make a stand.
We were all dragged away from overstretched sections - one from Cyprus FFS - to sit about & listen to irrelevent sh1te, a waste of taxpayers money and our time.
As collie mentioned, we got more out of chatting in tea breaks than anything else.
The Masked Geek
06-02-2007, 09:17
It's a shame that I'm exempt from it all, it could be fun. :PDT_Xtremez_17:
mad_collie
06-02-2007, 09:19
It's a shame that I'm exempt from it all, it could be fun. :PDT_Xtremez_17:
That's the problem mate, they wont exempt any sncos, whatever Q's & experience they hold.
The Masked Geek
06-02-2007, 09:22
Glad I got my Q-CIS-Tech this year then. :PDT_Xtremez_14:
AlwaysTG3
08-02-2007, 10:54
I'm there in a couple of weeks for mine, not looking forward to it.
From the sounds of it, you still get treated like kids. Do they make you sit an exam? Is it worth me taking a laptop so I can finish off the 6000s I need to do? That would be more productive than listening to them regurgitate stuff I dont need to hear.
League Any Time
08-02-2007, 21:58
I'm there in a couple of weeks for mine, not looking forward to it.
From the sounds of it, you still get treated like kids. Do they make you sit an exam? Is it worth me taking a laptop so I can finish off the 6000s I need to do? That would be more productive than listening to them regurgitate stuff I dont need to hear.
depends you may do a data comms exam to prove to the Instructors that you've forgotten more than they will ever know
probably hear I don't know they make me teach this (heard from most parts of flowerpot)
razor501
13-02-2007, 23:57
I have been reading e-goat for a while and have found the majority of the postings to be witty, interesting or just letting off steam in general. Then I found the TG 3 bit. What a bunch of whingeing, whining morons you all are. I can appreciate the fact that you, as a collective, should be known as a thicket and that you actually believe the cr@p you all spout but I would have thought that if you hated the thought of AT that much, you would vote with your feet and refuse - or would that mean showing some of that spine that you are castigating your sponsor for not having? The reality is that you have two choices, you can refuse to do AT and take the consequences or you can elect to do AT and become part of the future - whatever that holds! it's your choice but for God's sake make it and quit the whingeing!
I have, this evening sat and read the thread showing concern and support for an E-Goat poster who in the last week or so has been to hell and back over her young sister who has been hospitalised with a serious brain tumour, this supporting RAF is the one that I remember and puts all of you who are whingeing here to shame!
Just for the record, I know the instructor of whom "Hobbes the Gobbes" writes and I know for a fact that some of the retards on that course were definately talking through their rectums! The phrase "We don't do that" was muttered regularly and was at times blatently incorrect because if "you didn't do that" the intranet would not work!::P:
Just for the record, I know the instructor of whom "Hobbes the Gobbes" writes and I know for a fact that some of the retards on that course were definately talking through their rectums! The phrase "We don't do that" was muttered regularly and was at times blatently incorrect because if "you didn't do that" the intranet would not work!::P:
Nice troll/wind up attempt for your 1st post.
::P:
Gray
Meathead
14-02-2007, 00:58
Im with the Techs on this one, and im ex TG11 (I know think of myself as a Cashew, kind of expensive peanut!). To my way of thinking, if I was cut out to be a 'tech' then surely I would have scored high enough at the CIO when i joined up.....
As for the AT course (the peanut version), at least yours is only 2/3 weeks, I had to endure 10 weeks of fat/weird ex chiefs mumbling along, and I cant say that anything I have learnt will be of benefit, general overviews all the way through.
To be fair, I had a bloody good time on the lash, if you can block out the rubbish that goes with being in flowerpot hall...enjoy it, get on the apples with a load of people that you wont have seen in years
Just to top it off, spent most of the Xmas money the missus had put away, down at the Crown. Missus not happy. Thankyou for incidental expenses..get in there JPA!
mad_collie
14-02-2007, 10:07
I have been reading e-goat for a while and have found the majority of the postings to be witty, interesting or just letting off steam in general. Then I found the TG 3 bit. What a bunch of whingeing, whining morons you all are. I can appreciate the fact that you, as a collective, should be known as a thicket and that you actually believe the cr@p you all spout but I would have thought that if you hated the thought of AT that much, you would vote with your feet and refuse - or would that mean showing some of that spine that you are castigating your sponsor for not having? The reality is that you have two choices, you can refuse to do AT and take the consequences or you can elect to do AT and become part of the future - whatever that holds! it's your choice but for God's sake make it and quit the whingeing!
I have, this evening sat and read the thread showing concern and support for an E-Goat poster who in the last week or so has been to hell and back over her young sister who has been hospitalised with a serious brain tumour, this supporting RAF is the one that I remember and puts all of you who are whingeing here to shame!
Just for the record, I know the instructor of whom "Hobbes the Gobbes" writes and I know for a fact that some of the retards on that course were definately talking through their rectums! The phrase "We don't do that" was muttered regularly and was at times blatently incorrect because if "you didn't do that" the intranet would not work!::P:
As has been said, for a first post, nice attempt at trolling.
As you are a new user, I suggest you read the forum rules again before posting.
This is a TG3 trade specific forum and is to be treated as such.
Keep the flame posts for fight club.
razor501
14-02-2007, 10:53
Thank you for the response. I read the rules and the main thing that strikes me is about hateful mail.... Also I notice that there are other postings from non tg3 people but are allowed, could this be because they agree with the bitter and twisted postings that I have read maybe? I have read through the thread again and believe that I have treated this forum in the same way as TG3 have, just in the other direction!:PDT_Xtremez_06:
Studley dangerfcuk
14-02-2007, 11:08
My, My what an unhappy forum. Bitch, bitch, bitch. It has been decided by people with a much higher payband than you or I that TG4 is the way forward. I am ex-TG3 and work closely with ex-TG11 and our civvy brothers and I have found that if you treat people with respect and just get on with the job at hand, things get done. Lets face it your in the RAF and you get paid a good wage for doing very little. I personally dont want to get a job in civvy street, Whatever life or the RAF throws at me I deal with it and so do my work fellows.
Stop bleating and get on with it. Here endeth the lesson.
Studley :PDT_Xtremez_28:
The Masked Geek
14-02-2007, 11:09
Come on then razor, what's your argument? Or don't you have one?
Maybe you think AT is a good idea? Lets have your thoughs then, rather than a flaming rant.
Maybe a bit of background info on who you are? Or are you one of the fcukwits that designed the so-called course?
It would also appear that you have gotten your Studley friend to attempt a flame too, not strong enough to do it yourself?
rugby then work
14-02-2007, 11:56
Razor/Studley, as MC said this is a trade specific forum where members of that trade are free to express their feelings on trade related matters. If you don't like it, don't read it, it's much the same advice you gave - "you would vote with your feet and leave" do us all a favour and troll somewhere more appropriate like fight club.
razor501
14-02-2007, 14:12
Firstly, as a new "poster" to forums I hope you will forgive my ignorance regarding specific terms such as "flame" and "troll", I can only presume that they are not necessarily complimentary terms. That aside, firstly to respond to TMG:
I don't actually have an argument as such, merely observations. I don't have to sit AT from either the TG3 or 11 side so I have no comment from that perspective. My observations are based purely on the comments recorded here. Regardless of whether or not you believe that AT is the way to go, the "powers that be" have decreed that both TG3 and TG11 have to do AT and the last time I served (which was not THAT long ago), orders were orders and could only be ignored if they were deemed illegal. Therefore AT will be attended. The more worrying underlying current is the basic lack of understanding of what you are being assimilated for. The comments from both those ex-tg3 and ex-tg11 infer that AT is to turn TG3 into muppets and TG11 into tekkies. This is not the case, TG11 personnel will never be assimilated into CIS Tech. As far as the TG3 side of things is concerned, I can state quite confidently from personal investigation that there are far more TG3 personnel who are IT illiterate than those that are IT literate. Therefore there is a need to bring everybody up to a minimum standard.
As for the design of the course..... the "fcukwits" who are responsible are actually.... yes you guessed it, TG3!!!!!
Now Rugby then work:
With regards to the trade specific forum, I refer you to my earlier response that other non TG3 personnel have posted here, the only difference is that they agree with you "anti every other trade" rhetoric. Also even your moderator "MC" is by his (or her) own admission not TG3 as they have completed AT and is therefore now TG4!!! Oh and Studley (whom I do not actually know) is, if you read, ex-TG 3! If this is the standard of your arguments then, by your own admission, you don't have many boundaries do you?:PDT_Xtremez_19:
The Masked Geek
14-02-2007, 14:47
A flame, Razor, is an inflammitory post. Something posted that was little or no value but is intended to wind people up. i.e. :-
What a bunch of whingeing, whining morons you all are.
As you say yourself, you have no argument so why bother posting in the first place. We all know that we will have to do AT or leave and we know there is probably some merit in the course.
Something we also know is that TG3 personnel are being put into TG11 posts and I also have it on good authority that the Army and Navy tried a similar thing to TG4; both failed and reverted back to techs and ops.
As for wingeing and wining, that is our right and we'll continue to do so with or without your blessing. My personal winge is at the downskilling of my once great trade, the oncomming DII(F) which - as in the case of the Uniter outsourcing - will end up costing more in the long run and leave us with a system less capable than the one we have now and the fact that I could see myself sitting in the back room of a commcen looking after little bits of paper for my next job; if that happens I will walk.
I'm a technician first and foremost and all we in TG3 want to do is hold onto a little bit of the glory days when we were the workers of magic.
As for the rants against our innefectual trade sponsor, two chief techs were sat talking to him in the mess a while ago and he couldn't answer a single question about TG4 and in their words "seemed to have his head buried in the sand"; hardly the kind of man we needed fighting our corner was he? Yes he was late to the party but he could have done more. TG3 posts at my last camp were reduced by 10 and TG11 posts increased by a similar number one of which was mine and as I was responsible for the running of the network servers - including fixing any h/ware or s/ware faults - advising STC on security policy, software engineering and various other "techie" type things, I can't see a non-tech filling the post effectively.
The job evaluation guys that came round ignored 75% of what my job entailed and tailored their report to shed a TG11 slant on it and before you ask, yes I did see it and yes I was the one whom they asked the questions of.
So yes we may appear to be having a rant but we are merely venting our spleens and that is, in part, what this forum is for. What we don't need is "holier than thou" members making the situation worse by doing nothing more than flaming and that would be considered trolling.
Have a nice day. :PDT_Xtremez_28:
mad_collie
14-02-2007, 15:31
Also even your moderator "MC" is by his (or her) own admission not TG3 as they have completed AT and is therefore now TG4!!! Oh and Studley (whom I do not actually know) is, if you read, ex-TG 3! If this is the standard of your arguments then, by your own admission, you don't have many boundaries do you?:PDT_Xtremez_19:
It looks like Tossford have sent a couple of trolls. wanker
Dont feed them too much, it only encourages them.
Once TG3, always TG3.
razor501
14-02-2007, 16:16
TMG
Thank you for your response. Contrary to what you may believe, I actually agree with a lot of what you say regarding the "downskilling". I have also advocated at the school for a long time now that tekkies are being "forced" down a route that they do not wish to go. All most tekkies I have spoken to want to do is "tekkify" things. As for the comments regarding personalities, I cannot, no will not comment as I think it is unfair to make these things personal, but that is my opinion and, as you point out, it is your right to vent you spleen.
My "whinge" in all of this is that everybody seems to be pointing the blame at the TG11 personnel. If the shoe was on the other foot would you turn down the extra money and say "I don't do a tekky job so I won't take the money"? Why the hostility against those who are only doing what anyone would do. Surely the anger should be directed at the management alone as the management are the ones who decide these things.
As for those personnel whose bodies are writing cheques their intelect cannot cash (regardless of which trade they are), they will be found out.
At the risk of sounding condescending (and just for the record it is not meant to!) thank you for the full and detailed response.
MC
Nice icon, I wish my hand did have to move that far!!!!!
mad_collie
14-02-2007, 16:25
My "whinge" in all of this is that everybody seems to be pointing the blame at the TG11 personnel. If the shoe was on the other foot would you turn down the extra money and say "I don't do a tekky job so I won't take the money"? Why the hostility against those who are only doing what anyone would do. Surely the anger should be directed at the management alone as the management are the ones who decide these things.
As for those personnel whose bodies are writing cheques their intelect cannot cash (regardless of which trade they are), they will be found out.
MC
Nice icon, I wish my hand did have to move that far!!!!!
I dont think that the comment about blaming the TG11 personnel as a whole is entirely fair - we all know that they have been fortunate with the restructure of the TG and they have dipped in.
The main complaints are against the TS for the way he has handled things.
There are a few TG11 muppets who are gobbing off about being techs etc - but you comment above reflects what will happen.
Thanks for a more balanced post. (No icon this time)
[QUOTE=hobbes;65295]I had to do assim a few weeks ago and it was an insult.
Completed my assim month or so ago I thought like yourself that the time I would be spending at tossford could be better spent at work clearing my In-tray, but I did what was required to have chance of extending my current engagement.
Like yourself I also had an ex TG11 Cpl, civvie instructor found him to be very sympathetic to what was being done to our trade. He did his best to inform us of what the TG3/TG11 SAC/JT/CPL AT trainees were being taught. As a Snec who has had very limited exposure to IT Systems, found the course to be very beneficial, so I found the comments you have expressed to slightly harsh on not only the Instructor but the course too, as I personally did actually learn something......:raf:
mad_collie
14-02-2007, 21:43
As a Snec who has had very limited exposure to IT Systems, found the course to be very beneficial, so I found the comments you have expressed to slightly harsh on not only the Instructor but the course too, as I personally did actually learn something......:raf:
Which is why there is the argument about TG3 SNCO exemptions. A large number of people don't require AT, as they have been 'dual hatting' for years, before the TG4 fiasco came about. SACs, JTs & Cpls can get exemptions, but a SNCO cannot?
[mad_collie Which is why there is the argument about TG3 SNCO exemptions. A large number of people don't require AT, as they have been 'dual hatting' for years, before the TG4 fiasco came about. SACs, JTs & Cpls can get exemptions, but a SNCO cannot?
You won't get argument from me on that one, I agree exemptions should have been given to SNCOs.
After being told of the overrun on AT Training bet the TS wished he had allowed more exemptions too.:PDT_Xtremez_41:
Studley dangerfcuk
15-02-2007, 00:35
Masked Geek,
you might want to hold off there with the accusations, I only say it as I see it. Don't get me wrong I am a techie through and through, but we all know how to play the game. I get on with anyone, even TG12 Scopies (did I admit that!!!!let the world open up and swallow me). It's the same in what was TG3, how many fcukwits have you seen in your time in TG3. This Air Force takes all sort and usually does. Just one more thing there is not that many TG3 left out there, most have now been assimilated. Every week that goes by new courses start and TG3 fades into the distance, why fight it, just go with the flow baby.
By the way I work with a couple of ex-peanuts that think they're the gift of the gab, I just keep them on a tight leash and let them dig their own pits. It's more fun that way. You know who you are. Here cometh the ICE MAN ?????
Studley:PDT_Xtremez_28:
I have been reading e-goat for a while and have found the majority of the postings to be witty, interesting or just letting off steam in general. Then I found the TG 3 bit. What a bunch of whingeing, whining morons you all are. I can appreciate the fact that you, as a collective, should be known as a thicket and that you actually believe the cr@p you all spout but I would have thought that if you hated the thought of AT that much, you would vote with your feet and refuse - or would that mean showing some of that spine that you are castigating your sponsor for not having? The reality is that you have two choices, you can refuse to do AT and take the consequences or you can elect to do AT and become part of the future - whatever that holds! it's your choice but for God's sake make it and quit the whingeing!
I have, this evening sat and read the thread showing concern and support for an E-Goat poster who in the last week or so has been to hell and back over her young sister who has been hospitalised with a serious brain tumour, this supporting RAF is the one that I remember and puts all of you who are whingeing here to shame!
Just for the record, I know the instructor of whom "Hobbes the Gobbes" writes and I know for a fact that some of the retards on that course were definately talking through their rectums! The phrase "We don't do that" was muttered regularly and was at times blatently incorrect because if "you didn't do that" the intranet would not work!::P:
That has to be the most inflammatry post I have seen in my short time here.
How dare you (a civilian, who have never been TG3) come into a trade forum and compare what we have to say about about a trade related matter, with somebody who has a brain tumour? That has to be singly the most insensitive comment I have seen on here.
And of course all the people on the course were retards, that is why we all made SNCO, *************************************
There is one person on this forum talking through their rectum, *******.
The Masked Geek
15-02-2007, 09:26
Masked Geek,
you might want to hold off there with the accusations,
Yes we appear to be wrong in this instance but two brand new members hitting the thread with inflammitory posts within a few hours of each other may be seen as (and often indicates) a trolling attempt.
Comments from myself and MC were there to highlight such a possibility and hopefully avoid a flame war between you, Razor501 and our established membership.
Now, why not drop into the introductions forum and give us a clue.
Unfortunately, this post seems to have come 1 minute too late for Hobbes.:PDT_Xtremez_28:
mad_collie
15-02-2007, 09:34
That has to be the most inflammatry post I have seen in my short time here.
How dare you (a civilian, who have never been TG3) come into a trade forum and compare what we have to say about about a trade related matter, with somebody who has a brain tumour? That has to be singly the most insensitive comment I have seen on here.
And of course all the people on the course were retards, that is why we all made SNCO, *************************************
There is one person on this forum talking through their rectum, *******.
Hobbes, the point has been made and there is no need to bite to what was obviously a post designed to provoke reaction.
If there are any more 'one post wonders' that turn up for a bit of trade bashing, the posts will be deleted or moved.
The subject is assimilation, anybody wanting to have a pop at TG3, take it to fight club.
Please ignore the following paragraph aimed at the special people.
Quickly I would like to thank the two out of trade posters who seem to know a surprising amount about the trade and how much better we will be once we can all suck eggs in time together, I really don't know how we would be expected to click on a few windows, or even read the odd help file, compared to running global communications and navigational systems using many interfaces and different manufacturers own operating systems, without your knowledge and experience. I must bow to your obvious superior knowledge. How I can work my own PC at home sometimes escapes me
Right on topic...
If I get picked up early enough I will not do AT, chances are I will not as it would be into the decreasing CIST echs slots, so may do it as whether I do it or not will not have any impact on the direction we are going, and could be a chance to spend a week or three on the lash.
If the concearns of the full trade spread about the irreversable harm it will/ is doing to the skill set of the trade are ignored what hope has my little protest got?
What I want to know is what effect will doing it have on my employment prospects. Even the TS wouldn't tell me. Can I still do OOA?
As Eng Tech EL which slots are open to me? IM and CISTech?
What about promotion, when does the trade become Obsolete, surely if I am elegable to fill a TG4 slot/ OOA comitment- I should be considered for promotion?
Yes I know I can't be signed on but that really doesn't concearn me, and when used as a threat (as it was) it will not bother me!
Does anyone know if they still do the exemptions?
razor501
15-02-2007, 16:28
have been asking around and think that the only exemption that exists is if you have completed SMS2003 training at the school. This will exempt you from training but you still have to do the datacomms exam. I will try and confirm this for you soonest:PDT_Xtremez_35:
The Hoffmeister
15-02-2007, 17:56
Razor, you are correct about sms2003, i did this last month. If you have relevent Q's in NT and Exchange all you need to do is the 4 day sms2003 course and the datacomms exam and them you are assimilated.
I was origionally put on a 3 week course, but when I spoke to sponser they cancelled it and I just had to do the sms course.
Apparently there is 120 odd tg3 people who have Q's, but the system screwed it up and didn't take peoples Q's into account.
So if you have any Q's hassle the sponsors and you will get away with just doing the one week course if anything, but all tg3 have to do datacomms exam even if you have Q's, which is arse.
hope this helps
:PDT_Xtremez_28:
dunbar1983
15-02-2007, 18:29
Razor, you are correct about sms2003, i did this last month. If you have relevent Q's in NT and Exchange all you need to do is the 4 day sms2003 course and the datacomms exam and them you are assimilated.
I was origionally put on a 3 week course, but when I spoke to sponser they cancelled it and I just had to do the sms course.
Apparently there is 120 odd tg3 people who have Q's, but the system screwed it up and didn't take peoples Q's into account.
So if you have any Q's hassle the sponsors and you will get away with just doing the one week course if anything, but all tg3 have to do datacomms exam even if you have Q's, which is arse.
hope this helps
:PDT_Xtremez_28:
cheers for the info i have a few exemptions but saw the lads in the same boat as me havng to do the full course even though we sent our Q's to the bods in charge. ill prob still have to do it anyway. I wish they would just send me on it because its just dragging on now!!:PDT_Xtremez_17:
OK..Igiveup
15-02-2007, 18:44
I too sent the stuff off. I thought I only had to do the sms/sunrise part.
Return email said that i would get called up just for the one week disguised as a Pre employment course, But when I phoned up I got a rather snotty reply saying it was all getting too complicated and that everyone will have to do the three weeks (exTG11 Sgt trying to sort it out-figures!). Okay if you in the UK but a pain if you are overseas and get dragged back for three weeks without a car to redo courses you have Qs for that were run by a properly authorised Microsoft trainer.
Does a degree in computing get me off the exam?
mad_collie
15-02-2007, 19:20
cheers for the info i have a few exemptions but saw the lads in the same boat as me havng to do the full course even though we sent our Q's to the bods in charge. ill prob still have to do it anyway. I wish they would just send me on it because its just dragging on now!!:PDT_Xtremez_17:
Dunbar, get your snec to call the desk at PMA and ask when there are spaces on the courses.
I called them last week & got all my lads booked on their courses at a time that suits both them and PMA.
It's the quickest and easiest way to get on the course.
dunbar1983
15-02-2007, 19:24
Dunbar, get your snec to call the desk at PMA and ask when there are spaces on the courses.
I called them last week & got all my lads booked on their courses at a time that suits both them and PMA.
It's the quickest and easiest way to get on the course.
Cheers for the info MC, that might mean i can avoid getting it during the Siggies Cup :PDT_Xtremez_14:
mad_collie
15-02-2007, 19:25
Cheers for the info MC, that might mean i can avoid getting it during the Siggies Cup :PDT_Xtremez_14:
Worked for my lot. :PDT_Xtremez_28:
OK..Igiveup
15-02-2007, 19:28
Thats why we rang up. Admit it was a few months ago, maybe it was the wrong time of the month. Will try again if you think its worth it.
I also heard on the rumour grapevine (down the pub) that the cut off date for training was now August? Anyone confirm.
rugby then work
15-02-2007, 20:40
As has been mentioned before (I think), exemptions aren't available to SNCO's, no matter that you may have done the SMS2003/NT4/LDCN etc you still have to do the week course.
Little_Dictator
23-02-2007, 13:29
Ok, anyone who's read my introduction will know that I've joined e-goat purely and simply so I can give you the benefit of my experience as an instructor... for what that's worth!
Looking back through this thread, I can see that the course for TG3 Sgts to be assimilated to TG4 has been widely slated. I have just spent the last 4 days standing in front of a group of 12 TG3 Sgts, whose IT knowledge ranged from quite extensive to "what's a computer". I am in no way disparaging those whose career path has kept them away from IT... it happens! However, straight away the justification for the course becomes slightly more evident... all these people somehow have to be brought up to a "base-level". I offer my sincerest apologies to those who were already AT or beyond that base-level... I unfortunately can't think of a way round using the stock answer "The Trade Sponsor says so". It was the Trade Sponsor's decision to decree there would be no exemptions for Sgts, regardless of IT Q's held... sorry, I'm stuck there just as much as you are!
Don't get me wrong.. I am not advocating the stock "Why am I here?" with the answer "Because the Trade Sponsor says so". What I am suggesting is that with the trade becoming more IT-based, prior to posting someone in to an IT role, the Trade Sponsor needs a warm fuzzy feeling that the individual meets some base criteria... hence the "overview" (for want of a better description) given on this course.
As part of my justification that I gave my course, I broke an IT system down into segments:
Operating System
Email
Systems Management
Database Management
Fault Reporting System
I then explained that whilst the software and systems I was instructing them on was perhaps NOT what they would actually use out in the real world, at least by covering each topic in some depth they would get an understanding of what each TYPE of segment would be capable of providing. Yes, NT4, Exchange 5.5, SQL Server 6.x (or 7) and SMS 2.0 are probably either upgraded already or in the process of being upgraded, the fact remains that if you understand WHAT each one of these do, the version doesn't really make all that difference... does it?
Personally, I think my class learned something... if I taught each person at least one thing about IT that they didn't know, then a) I have done my job as an instructor, and b) I have justified the requirement for the course because the student didn't know that one thing to start with. I had a great bunch of lads on the course and it was a pleasure to teach them. What seemed to stand out though was the fact that I had vast experience in the real world, and was able to explain sometime complicated concepts using real-world examples and situations I have experienced. I don't know if this is what the problem has been with previous courses.... perhaps, perhaps not... the key though is that anyone having to still do this course, bear in mind the segmented approach I used to justify it and see if that helps when you sit in that class wondering why you're covering NT4!
I look forward to seeing some feedback (possibly!!).
The Masked Geek
23-02-2007, 13:49
What seemed to stand out though was the fact that I had vast experience in the real world, and was able to explain sometime complicated concepts using real-world examples and situations I have experienced.
Ah, somebody with an indepth knowledge of the subject they are teaching; now there's a novel idea. Maybe the RAF needs to take note.
I'm fed up of going on RAF run courses and being taught less that I have ever forgotten about IT, then being told "that's what we've been told to teach you" when I challenge something, all because the instructor is teaching from a book and doesn't have a clue.
A good post LD and a refreshing argument in an oft stale arena. Personally I'd use the course as an excuse to get p1ssed and turn my brain off for a while but even after over 15 years in the business, like you say, there's always one little gap that gets filled. It's the little personal tips and shortcuts that I gain from these courses now-a-days rather than any real subject knowledge.:PDT_Xtremez_28:
LD, praise be they finally have someone teaching the course that gives a damn about it. Congratulations on the novel approach and good luck.
I suspect the problem with previous courses was that there appeared to be little or no structure to it. You can accept being on a course, even if you have an indecently large knowledge on the subject matter, if someone just takes the time to explain the reasons why you are doing it. The approach of 'This is bollox and I don't know why you are here' doesn't exactly put the student in the right frame of mind for learning.
Nice to have an instructor’s point of view, and appreciate you taking the time to put it.
mad_collie
23-02-2007, 18:05
It's about time they did something.
The problem is LD, they have finally got you to take on the course when 80% of the SNCOs have already gone through!
Still, I suppose one little step in the right direction is better than none at all.
[QUOTE=Little_Dictator probably know MUCH more about working on a Helpdesk than me!![/QUOTE]
Sorry but as an Instructor I do not believe that personnel experience or what trade you are is the overriding factor in this matter, of course TG11 like to be taught by TG11 or Ex and TG3 like TG3 or Ex because elements can be placed in to their respective contexts, I believe it is in fact the product that is a fault it is without doubt very poor, and is a package that originally was designed as an overview for new TG11 Instructors when they arrived at the school to bring them quickly up to speed on what was being taught to TG11 TCO’s
This package should have been retired when TG11 was, and a new and properly designed one should have been designed that actually gave SNCO's some sort of useful information.
Also after reading the other comments on this forum I all would have to agree that SNCO's with relevant experience should have been granted exemption allowing them to assimilate with minimal expense and fuss.
Allowing exemptions would have reduced the stress levels the training staff who have had to put up with justifiably negative attitudes from not just TG3 SNCO's but TG11 SNCO's, who have or are being employed in IT/IM roles.
Attitudes towards course have been further compounded by the stock answer "because we have to, or because the trade sponsor says so". The reasons these answers have been given by instructors on a regular basis are two fold. Firstly when AT training started instructors where honest and gave students the reasons behind elements of the courses being taught, but they were soon told in no uncertain terms to stop, this was followed by if you don’t you will be as a serviceman posted, and as a civilian possibly sacked or moved,.
And secondly It could be like most instructors I am just plain fed up with AT training it was supposed to last for 2 years and it looks like it could be 3, and as technology marches on and Basic Trainees get their CISCO and 2003 package training the AT are still getting NT and Exchange 5.5 not what you would call ore inspiring eh..
Little_Dictator
25-02-2007, 22:37
I believe it is in fact the product that is a fault it is without doubt very poor
You will hear no argument from me there... however, as an instructor I took the material provided and spent a great deal of time putting it together into a format that I personally could deliver. I found that no matter how hard I tried, I simply couldn't present the course in my own mind, in a structured way, as it was. I went on to create my own structured practical exercises that built on each other... a simple yet effective method consolidating each theory lesson with a practical element.
I appreciate that I am still new and keen to instructor duties this time round (although I have been there before, hence saving myself all the time and effort of having to do the DIT/BIT/insert suitable acronym here), and that my current enthusiasm will be expected to wane... however, I have always endeavoured to spend my time at the front of the class delivering the best I can... and if that meant a little extra effort on my part so the course ran more smoothly, then so be it. I would not have felt comfortable standing in front of a class with the package as it was.
Sorry but as an Instructor I do not believe that personnel experience or what trade you are is the overriding factor in this matter
I agree in part. Personal experience is, in my experience (if you pardon the usage!), a great asset when dealing with any subject. The ability to draw on knowledge practically gained could be just what is needed to clarify that difficult point. What I am NOT saying though is that you cannot teach without it... far from it. The point I was trying to make was that for me, it worked.
My quip about the TG11 Sgts probably knowing more about Helpdesk was used as an example of where my own experience is lacking. Will that stop me from teaching the subject? Not at all. Will the fact that they are TG11 make a difference to the way I teach? Not at all. I follow an IS, and by making sure I cover each point in that IS, everyone who sits in front of me will meet the same criteria at the end of the week. I'm not being "trade-ist"... I just realise that perhaps in certain aspects of the course where my own knowledge isn't 100% (i.e. Helpdesk), then I may well find myself at the mercy of the more experienced guys in front of me! I just hope they will be bale to fill in the gaps as required!
Rememebr, it's not all about the guy at the front of the class... each member of a course brings their own knowledge and experiences to each subject... I learned things from the TG3 Sgt's last week, and I look forward to learning more from the TG11s - because whatever is brought to the table, if it helps me the next time I have to teach, all the better.
[QUOTE=MAT1 - and is a package that originally was designed as an overview for new TG11 Instructors when they arrived at the school to bring them quickly up to speed on what was being taught to TG11 TCO’s
If what you say is correct it puts in to perspective the said course, and as you said AT training does seem to going on and on and on, anyway does it really matter, actually would it have mattered if everyone who was already serving had been automatically assimilated without attending a single course, I thing the answer would have been no! As everyone requiring a course for their current or future employment could have done a Pre-Employment course, isn't that what they are for.
Anyway as I said does any of this really matter anyway we will all attend our relevant assimilation course we will all assimilate to TG4 and then either get promoted and carry on, or finish our time and pick our pensions up...
Now for the philosophical bit....:PDT_Xtremez_28:
Also does anyone out their really think we or they are so important that anyone really gives a sh*t what are opinions are. Will anyone give a t*ss when we have left, as who are we really, as when all is said and done we are just an employee of a company, and that company has less employees than most medium to large firms in this country.
End of philosophizing.........:PDT_Xtremez_03:
Off Topic ..... Just a quick sort of off topic still to do with courses anyone at the school got any gen on what will be happening when DTR privatizes training, will training be the same as now or are they going to make any radical changes?:PDT_Xtremez_03:
3Chordwonder
14-03-2007, 19:19
They finally got me...first 2 weeks in May - anyone else on it then ?
rugby then work
31-03-2007, 00:28
Can finally post on this thread with some authority as I've just finished my AT, I've got a certificate and everything.
I didn't think the course was all that bad, pointless for myself as I've already got my CCNA, and have completed the Microsoft courses in Exchange, SMS and SQL but that goes back to the argument over exemptions. 3 out of the 7 on the course had very little knowledge on the subjects covered and at least got an overview of some of the jobs they may come into contact with in the future.
Fair play to the instructor he knew that he was teaching a course that most of the SNCO's in TG3 aren't interested in and tried to make the best of it.
I still believe that the week (or 4 days) would have been better spent discussing the way that the new trade is going to be managed and how we are going to employ the new SACs who pass out having completed BT1.
Officially that was the last AT course for TG3 Sgts and Cosford are awaiting direction from the trade sponsor as to if and when they will run any more.
The highlight of the week had to be 1100 on Monday when we where told that the instructor needed the rest of the day off and we adjourned to the local (and not so local) bars. The rest of the week followed a similar theme.
My name’s RTW and I’m an Alcoholic…………….
Studley dangerfcuk
31-03-2007, 18:30
I think you will find the instructor ****ed of at 09:30.??????????
Studley :PDT_Xtremez_35:
rugby then work
04-04-2007, 23:08
I think you will find the instructor ****ed of at 09:30.??????????
Studley :PDT_Xtremez_35:
Could well have done, did the Data Comms exam with him there, then had a TG4 brief and were on our way by 1100. I expect he was long gone by then. Had to pick up a car he'd bought on ebay.
theneverendingjug
05-05-2007, 23:14
Done it. And now I've been back in the real world for a week.
I work in IT, and have done for 16 months (not a long time I'll admit, but long enough).
I've got to be honest, I had a really good time. Not in the classroom (with no feckin windows, not like Locking) but out of it. Ten nights there, nine of them in the Jax - We went to see 300 the other night. We even made it to the Bop one night - You can drink later in there...
Anyway, back to topic.
That course would be perfect as a pre-employment course for anyone posted into an IT slot. But after all of it, I don't really get why everyone has to learn about Sunrise et al. What difference does Sunrise make if you're on the Wing? Or in GRF? How about HFP? Bugger all. But, I did need to know about when I started in IT. Even when they say that's where we're all going (as a trade), Why learn it now? Learn it when you need it.
By the way, the chilli sauce at that Kebab van is getting hotter...
Studley dangerfcuk
05-05-2007, 23:49
This thread should be closed now, the ar*e has well and truly been kicked out of play.
Studley:PDT_Xtremez_09:
Scrufty Bear
05-05-2007, 23:52
I'm ex tg11 and completed the at training mid jan. I have to say that it was an enlightening experience (thank god they'd stopped the b@llocks of us marching by the time I got there!!).
I had to endure the full 10 weeks and to be honest, even though I was already Q'd up on a couple of subjects, it was 10 weeks away from the hellhole that I work in. I had a right laugh, took the abuse from the tg3 guys with good spirit and learnt a lot in the process.
I have been known to pipe up with "I'm a techie now" then duck all following missiles. (Hubbie is tg1 and laughs extremely loudly when I say it too, usually follows it up with a kick in the a*se!!) Thing is, I know that I'm not a techie, I didn't have the aptitude when I joined up and struggle with parts of the course. Not because I'm thick I might add, but because after 10 years tippee typing for a living, datacomms was a bit of a shock to the system!!
I am quite aware of what my skills are and wouldn't expect an ex tg3 to sit there and type a signal, or let them sit there in horror watching me try and make a cable!!!!!!
At the end of the day, we're all in the same boat because of someone a lot higher up who gets paid more than we do put together. We have to make to best of a good/bad job and get on with it. I've certainly learnt more about the ex tg3 environment, I may not understand it sometimes, but we can all learn from each other.
Anyway, just thought I'd say my bit.
Ta g.
chumpzilla
22-06-2007, 10:57
I got shafted last year, while on my Watchman course, got a call to tell me that i was off for a 3 week lobotomy! Found it about as stimulating as geeting a w*lly shoved in my mouth! (sorry for the obcenity!) So, not very good at all! Passed all exams easily, even the datacomms they sprang on us AFTER our brief about how we'll have to march around! Few guys had slip ups on the course before me, but just putting that down to drunkenness! Oh well, Tg4 by name, but Tg3 will remain beating in my heart forever
Ciao:PDT_Xtremez_30:
The Masked Geek
22-06-2007, 11:55
This one's run it's course. Time to let it lie.
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