Are we better?

[Talk Wrench]

Before pay 2000, techies were king of the the hill.

Now that Chefs and other non fixer types earn the same as us,

Why are techies better?

TW

[Disillusioned]

Hmmmmm. I try not to get into the whole I'm better than you thing if I can help it. As cliched as it sounds we all have a purpose (apart from strectcher bearers, that's you SOL6 in case you were confused) so I don't think better I think different. But that difference should be reflected in the pay scales.

The way I see it we were royally shafted by our trade sponsors when pay 2000 eventually arrived. It's funny how nearly every other trade had a trade review before pay 2000 except TG1 and 2. According to the pay review board on a visit to benson it had been over ten years since we'd had a trade review,a fact much disputed post pay 2000 by a CASWO at one of their little morale boosting trips out. Then once pay 2000 is in low and behold TG1 and 2 have a trade review, but hang on, even if the trade review showed that our pay didn't compare to civvy street there was now no scope in the pay scales to increase the pay of the techies without incresing the chefs, rocks, car park attendants and the stretcher bearers. Triffic. Besides, even if the powers that be did decide to recognise our extra worth do you really think they'd find the money from somewhere without an act of parliament? Me either.

The thing that made me laugh the most was when CSAWO said they all deserved the same pay as us because it reflected the amount of time they spent OOA. Sorry, I thought that was why we had LSSA etc. My mistake.:PDT_Xtremez_32:

Even if they do get paid the same, take some solice (sp) from the fact you are still TG1 and top of the food chain.:PDT_Xtremez_30:

[gray]

Before pay 2000, techies were king of the the hill.

Now that Chefs and other non fixer types earn the same as us,

Why are techies better?

TW


We're not better - we just do a different job - And used to have longer training - Each person has his own contribution to 'the cause'. We're all getting screwed over and replaced by civvies, so all in the same boat.
:PDT_Xtremez_25:
G

[230Tiger]

I've got to agree with the concensus that we're not better but do a different job.

The main reason techies should get a higher rate of pay is the resonsibility we have when we sign things, especially as NCO's. To certify some of the things NCO's (esp.SNCO's) sign for in civvie street you would have to be a licenced engineer earning an awful lot more than an unlicened one!

I certainly feel that, as a techie, when you get your tapes you should be on a higher+ pay scale.

[budgie]

With this pay buissness, I think it doesn't really matter. TG1 and 2 still get high pay all the way. Imagine if they actually dropped us down to the low pay band!

Putting hand on heart do I earn my yearly wage? No. I haven't since I left my fitters course 8 years ago.

[gray]

With this pay buissness, I think it doesn't really matter. TG1 and 2 still get high pay all the way. Imagine if they actually dropped us down to the low pay band!

Putting hand on heart do I earn my yearly wage? No. I haven't since I left my fitters course 8 years ago.

You forgot TG 3 - Ooops sorry TG 4. There 'are' other Techies out there.
;)

G

[The Masked Geek]

In a word, yes. :PDT_Xtremez_28:

[Disillusioned]

With this pay buissness, I think it doesn't really matter. TG1 and 2 still get high pay all the way. Imagine if they actually dropped us down to the low pay band!

Putting hand on heart do I earn my yearly wage? No. I haven't since I left my fitters course 8 years ago.

I think FS get dropped to the lower payscal don't they? And when the strectcher bearers get substansive Cpl straight out of training and onto the higher pay band thne I wonder how career earnings compare over 15 years say?

[budgie]

Sorry. I know I forgot the other tekkys. I was only commenting on my own experiance. If I'd wanted to be rich I would have left years ago. Lets face it, anyone of us could leave and get a better wage outside.

[DrunkenMonki]

I think payscales are a difficult one. As a techie, i can, and have, had to do jobs with a stupid amount of responsibility. Its not nice finding out that you were the last person to work on a jet that goes in - been there (wasnt my fault, daft growbag filler hit birds). Still, just look to Valley with the Hawk that went in on the runway to see what happens if you take your eye off the ball.

However. I think i'd not be happy with a dirty chef, or a crap nurse either. A good number of other trades have responsibilities on a par with techies. Some don't and that grips my sh!t. Fair cop, musicians spend ages qualifying. But essential to the job, life and death responsibilities? Nope.

Since i've been an NCO i've done jobs that i thought were miles over my head and felt really underpaid for. But equally i've sat on my ar£e a lot as well!

[Get Tae]

The pay bands pre pay 2000 were there for a specific reason, to reflect the amount of pay each trade would expect reactive to civvy street. Now when have you heard of anyone other than Gordon Ramsey getting the same ****ing wage as a licensed aircraft engineer???? It just wouldn't happen.
Now I know the whinging fannies amongst us will say 'we all have a contribution to make' and i do agree with that statement BUT I dont agree with the PAY statements reflecting this!! Our educational ability was checked out at school and then used in the form of "education" certificates to gauge what trade we could join as. I resent some thick as feck TG560 arse hole getting the same pay as i do ( well maybe not cause as I have a TECHIE rank) when as soon as they get out the earn ferk all.
Pay 2000 is pish and is only one of many many reasons why folk are walking in droves.

[Martin Blank]

OY! never mind the Playgroup boys in 3/4 what about us poor relatives in TG 5/6.
we fix your runarounds, tractors and GSE, without us you'd be......

GROUNDED! :PDT_Xtremez_28:

a combined TG 5/6 Gen Tech M of 1200 top to bottom means we're definitely a dying breed
yet there's never a Det or International Op without us on it

We're all waiting for the "yes we know the RAF has a 4 month OOA policy but there just aren't enough of you so your going to do 6 months at a time "

as if missing out on the redundancy wasn't enough to make ppl PVR/hand in notice

[3wheeledtechie]

Pay 2000 was the biggest rip-off ever. Gen.

The Army had three pay bands, the Air Force had three, and the Navy had- well I dunno. Your brighest bods / them with weighty responsibilities of making sure planes don't fall out the sky / crash into each other / requiring a long time in trade training went into the high pay band. Not quite so technical but engineering trades etc went into the middle one, and all the rest into the bottom one. So why harmonise this to make two pay bands across all three services?

If you need to retain people who spend a disproportionate amount of time out of area, pay them more LSA. If its just a specific trade group, pay them a retention bonus at whatever point most leave at, to stay on a few more years, cos it'll be cheaper than recruiting and training all new personnel.

And tis right Geoffreys are essential, but I fear it is the lecky ones we are most short of.

[Penguins Suck]

Right listen in, the best things about pay 2000 was that i ams on higher pay leval, same as fat techies

[pie sandwich]

you might be on the same pay but i can still drink more diamond white that you

[Penguins Suck]

you might be on the same pay but i can still drink more diamond white that you
Right listen in yous pint sandwidth no techie scum cans drink more than a rock, we's are all nails FFS

[pie sandwich]

if your nails then I am the hammer, I am on the diamond white now when i should be in work, and your stuck at your mam's house with one parrot called dave drinking whats left of the dubonnet.

[BillyBunter]

OY! never mind the Playgroup boys in 3/4 what about us poor relatives in TG 5/6.
we fix your runarounds, tractors and GSE, without us you'd be......

GROUNDED! :PDT_Xtremez_28:


You 100% sure about that heheheheh , most OOA ive been on the jeffers are on there down day or never in , therefore as a liney, improvisation has to be done , not you guys fault its all down to no manpower !!!


either way its all balls !!! Pay 2000 sucks and does not reflect fairly IMO , to save money and pay everyone (all non commisioned ranks) that little bit more as we make the wheels turn in the RAF ,get rid of some of the high ranking ones that sit at Insworth etc etc all day and well , what do they do !!!!

[Red-Rock]

Even though I am out I still think the pay system sucks.

By the way you are all talking you obviously all think that the aircraft techie trades should be paid the most and the Rocks, barrier technicians et al should be paid the least. Well how about taking a different slant on this. Pay should also reflect the risk to life and limb caused by the job you do, after all this is the military. I know that Regiment training is a lot shorter than techie training but the risk to a Regiment Gunners life is far greater than the average techie fixing a Tornado in a HAS. Now I know that you are going to say that when a Gunner is not on a det how much risk is there, and I will agree that there is probably very little but when they are on a det (which these days they are quite a lot) the risk is very real.

Why can this fact not be reflected in the pay each person receives???

Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree if you want (and I'm sure you will cos most of you are techies getting paid the same as Rocks):PDT_Xtremez_15:

[Penguins Suck]

if your nails then I am the hammer, I am on the diamond white now when i should be in work, and your stuck at your mam's house with one parrot called dave drinking whats left of the dubonnet.

Right listen in yous pipe sand witch whos the fcuk do yous think yous are. you are jus a box changing techine not Elite forces like me

[CodeMonkey]

I had a similar argument(well one way conversation and i was talking) with a PTI while in clothing stores at tossford just as pay2000 came in. He was complaining that PTI's should get paid more! At the time i was feeling somewhat volatile and responded as follows:

"You think you should get paid more than me do you? How long is your trade training? Just in case you can't remember it's 26 weeks! I've already done 6 1/2 months basic trade and just completing 18 months fitters course, you think you should get paid more than me i don't fecking think so!!!!!"

He never said a word, come to think of it the other PTI that was there was quiet to.

Yes we all have a job to do but the restructuring of the pay bands in such an unfair way causes a lot of resentment. I agree there were trades that should have been brought onto the higher band but PTI's, Musicians definately not. The main reasons a lot of trades were rebanded was they had good trade sponsors where it seems the techies had spineless mice supporting them.

rant over

[Captain Gatso]

Pay 2000. what an issue that is, for all of us who went through it. I heard of whole courses at Cosford going straight to SHQ with a PVR forms. When it was briefed to them. At the time I couldn't blame them one bit. I remember a poster that was going round at my old post. It was a cartoon of four trades. At the top was a picture of a chef, holding a burnt pan. The inscription went" oh dear iv'e burnt it". The second was a PTI. The inscription went," oh dear, i have forget to press my shorts". The third was a musician. The inscription went. " Oh dear I have played the wrong note". The last one sumed it all up. It was a picture of a NCO techie, ****ting himself, with the inscription" oh dear, i have just killed two people". At the bottom of the poster was the inscription.
PAY 2000. THE BUCK STOPS HERE. I really think that the poster sums up really what is still going on today. If you are responsible for declaring that an aircraft is fit to fly. You should be paid to reflect that responsibility. We are always in the firing line if something goes wrong, then any other trade. day in day out. one day things will change but not in my time in the Air Force.:PDT_Xtremez_06:

[Realist78]

I think FS get dropped to the lower payscal don't they? And when the strectcher bearers get substansive Cpl straight out of training and onto the higher pay band thne I wonder how career earnings compare over 15 years say?

FSs don't get dropped but if they're a techie, they don't get incremental pay unless they only do something like 3-4 years as a chief.:PDT_Xtremez_09:

[Realist78]

I think payscales are a difficult one. As a techie, i can, and have, had to do jobs with a stupid amount of responsibility. Its not nice finding out that you were the last person to work on a jet that goes in - been there (wasnt my fault, daft growbag filler hit birds). Still, just look to Valley with the Hawk that went in on the runway to see what happens if you take your eye off the ball.

However. I think i'd not be happy with a dirty chef, or a crap nurse either. A good number of other trades have responsibilities on a par with techies. Some don't and that grips my sh!t. Fair cop, musicians spend ages qualifying. But essential to the job, life and death responsibilities? Nope.

Since i've been an NCO i've done jobs that i thought were miles over my head and felt really underpaid for. But equally i've sat on my ar£e a lot as well!

Shiney f@cks up and snaps a pencil-gets another out of the cupboard, chef f@cks up and breaks some eggs-makes an omelette, techie f@cks up and jet ploughs in with possibility of fatalities, slightly different responsibility I would say.