View Full Version : Trade Sponsors
WorsethanJPA
07-12-2006, 23:01
I've just heard a damaging rumour, our beloved Trade Sponsors think that the Pers Admin trade should take more jobs on.
They are thinking about merging parts of the trade with Med Admin/Int and MT Admin - in effect turning us into 'Jack of all trades, master of none'.
Happy to be proved wrong, however what do my fellow scribblies think?
PSFbeatch
07-12-2006, 23:35
I've just heard a damaging rumour, our beloved Trade Sponsors think that the Pers Admin trade should take more jobs on.
They are thinking about merging parts of the trade with Med Admin/Int and MT Admin - in effect turning us into 'Jack of all trades, master of none'.
Happy to be proved wrong, however what do my fellow scribblies think?
theres been talk of this for ages....like where have you been???
tommo9999
08-12-2006, 08:23
theres been talk of this for ages....like where have you been???
Correct. This has been on the cards ever since that well known tosser @ H Wycombe completed the RASS study. Let's face it folks, if the RAF could do without a uniformed HR presence, it would. They don't want us, don't like us, and I feel if it wasn't for the OOA commitment we've got, we would have been history a while ago.
These people will always choose 1 extra pilot over a couple of adminers. JPA was designed to be less HR dependant (I know it's not), in order for them to get rid of us. The Sponsor is probably just trying to save the Trade from extinction, by using us in different roles. That said, why is there a medic in every SMC just doing Docs??
MyShineyAr$e
08-12-2006, 08:49
That said, why is there a medic in every SMC just doing Docs??
Because that's all they're good for?
RIGHTHANDSPANKER
08-12-2006, 09:42
Got speaking to a mate who is a Chf Clk, although JPA has increased our workload it would appear that SJAR will increase workloads by a further 30% at least. This is despite the 20% cut that we have already had. When inquiring about the trade review it has been decided that we will take a further 10% cut despite the extra jobs that JPA has caused.
Boarderlyne
08-12-2006, 13:11
Got speaking to a mate who is a Chf Clk, although JPA has increased our workload it would appear that SJAR will increase workloads by a further 30% at least. This is despite the 20% cut that we have already had. When inquiring about the trade review it has been decided that we will take a further 10% cut despite the extra jobs that JPA has caused.
Doomed! We're all doomed! :PDT_Xtremez_42:
No surprise there then. Our workload has been steadily increasing since SAMA first came in and again, we are to do more work with less people. I have yet to see or hear of any admin post that has had a decrease in work since JPA came in. Does anyone know of such a post?
TrenchardsLoveSock
08-12-2006, 13:16
I've just heard a damaging rumour, our beloved Trade Sponsors think that the Pers Admin trade should take more jobs on.
They are thinking about merging parts of the trade with Med Admin/Int and MT Admin - in effect turning us into 'Jack of all trades, master of none'.
Happy to be proved wrong, however what do my fellow scribblies think?
Not a scribbly but can I just say welcome to the world of the multiskilled airman!!:PDT_Xtremez_19:
tommo9999
08-12-2006, 13:27
Doomed! We're all doomed! :PDT_Xtremez_42:
No surprise there then. Our workload has been steadily increasing since SAMA first came in and again, we are to do more work with less people. I have yet to see or hear of any admin post that has had a decrease in work since JPA came in. Does anyone know of such a post?
Sec Sponsor's post probably.
shiny_arse
08-12-2006, 16:12
Just give it a couple of years and just burrow our heads into the JPA desk manuals!! Admin is going exactly the same way as Chefs & MTD's a few years ago where once they had got rid of everyone they quickly realised that they had screwed the pooch and then spent 2002 - 2004 trying like hell to recruit as many back as they could persuade.
Once the almighty realise that JPAC is FUBAR'd it will only be a matter of time before some tosspot is going to come up with the idea that pay issues should really be dealt with by uniformed personnel at unit level. They will probably get their 2 star and medals out of it whilst the rest of us continue to beat our heads off of our desks at the sheer stupidity of it all.
In the meantime, as listed in the posts above, it is now a case of TG17 being made to look as productive as possible. Never mind that JPA is a bag of bollox, it's okay that we have had our numbers decimated, lets see what else can be tinkered with to screw us over. Still waiting to hear who the 1st RAF Pers Admin is going to be shafted onto in a RN or Army role because of their drastic decline in numbers. Anyone fancy a six month tour on board the love boat??
All I can say is AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RIGHTHANDSPANKER
08-12-2006, 17:03
I have just heard that they are going to establish blue suit jobs at Glasgow to assist the civil servants/temps in the pay office. Call me a cynic but did we not already have this at Innsworth? I cannot wait until they decide that a tri-service pay system is too expensive to run and introduce single service admin.
woollymouse
08-12-2006, 19:43
Doomed! We're all doomed! :PDT_Xtremez_42:
No surprise there then. Our workload has been steadily increasing since SAMA first came in and again, we are to do more work with less people. I have yet to see or hear of any admin post that has had a decrease in work since JPA came in. Does anyone know of such a post?
My last posting did............ Oh sorry it got disestablished last April. Does that sound as less work, I got a posting (sorry again a new assignment) out of it and some civvy got what was left of the job.:PDT_Xtremez_28:
PSFbeatch
08-12-2006, 21:12
Correct. This has been on the cards ever since that well known tosser @ H Wycombe completed the RASS study. Let's face it folks, if the RAF could do without a uniformed HR presence, it would. They don't want us, don't like us, and I feel if it wasn't for the OOA commitment we've got, we would have been history a while ago.
These people will always choose 1 extra pilot over a couple of adminers. JPA was designed to be less HR dependant (I know it's not), in order for them to get rid of us. The Sponsor is probably just trying to save the Trade from extinction, by using us in different roles. That said, why is there a medic in every SMC just doing Docs??
we had some fat warrant officer come to our place who was from STC, Im not sure what he did but I know he was our trade,just before JPA was introduced, and he was the most ignorant man i think i have ever met.
We were voicing our general concerns about JPA, and all he could go on about was the future of tg17 and tac admin wg (ha ha ha) I left my briefing feeling more convinced that the air force is indeed run by monkeys! any hoo hes the one who told us that they were looking at put us in Med Centres. Personally, they absolutely reek at their job!
Our RMC asked in sro's for volunteers to come and help file fmed5's in fmed4's.....wait a minute whilst I jump out of my seat.... not!
are you the famous tommo ex tg17 sgt drafter, or is that someone else?
woollymouse
08-12-2006, 21:22
we had some fat warrant officer come to our place who was from STC, Im not sure what he did but I know he was our trade,just before JPA was introduced, and he was the most ignorant man i think i have ever met.
We were voicing our general concerns about JPA, and all he could go on about was the future of tg17 and tac admin wg (ha ha ha) I left my briefing feeling more convinced that the air force is indeed run by monkeys! any hoo hes the one who told us that they were looking at put us in Med Centres. Personally, they absolutely reek at their job!
Our RMC asked in sro's for volunteers to come and help file fmed5's in fmed4's.....wait a minute whilst I jump out of my seat.... not!
are you the famous tommo ex tg17 sgt drafter, or is that someone else?
PSFbeatch I think you may find that the WO you saw was part of the Trade Sponsor's office.
As for your RMC asking for volunteers to assist in their filing they obviously don't really care about the term "MEDCIAL IN CONFIDENCE" Seeing as the FMed 4 contains a person's medical records.
Vim_Fuego
08-12-2006, 21:23
Our RMC asked in sro's for volunteers to come and help file fmed5's in fmed4's.....wait a minute whilst I jump out of my seat.... not!
I see an opportunity for finding out tons of embarrassing medical details and dilemma's whilst employed in this field...perhaps a little blackmail...:raf:
woollymouse
08-12-2006, 21:24
I see an opportunity for finding out tons of embarrassing medical details and dilemma's whilst employed in this field...perhaps a little blackmail...:raf:
Ahhh another willing volunteer!:PDT_Xtremez_30:
Vim_Fuego
08-12-2006, 21:39
Ahhh another willing volunteer!:PDT_Xtremez_30:
Believe me....I would do that job in a flash...and laugh all the way to the bank yak yak
tommo9999
08-12-2006, 22:01
are you the famous tommo ex tg17 sgt drafter, or is that someone else?
Yes, that's me. I didn't know I was famous (Or infamous). That is unless I had to send you to a non-AOC that is!!
PSFbeatch
08-12-2006, 22:30
Yes, that's me. I didn't know I was famous (Or infamous). That is unless I had to send you to a non-AOC that is!!
I heard of you... Im only an SAC, but I often heard the seniors talk about you...did you enjoy it?? personally i would love reigning misery on others! i seem to be on the recieving end nearly 5 years in suicide central!
Vim_Fuego
08-12-2006, 22:34
I heard of you... Im only an SAC, but I often heard the seniors talk about you...did you enjoy it?? personally i would love reigning misery on others! i seem to be on the recieving end nearly 5 years in suicide central!
I've got to ask psfbeatch...I've read some/most of your posts that you've made so far and my question is this...Do you have a raincloud permanently over your head?
You sound like a grumpy old chief when you should be full of bright eyed enthusiasm and optimism...
Why do I feel like I should never have asked this...Doom inbound...:PDT_Xtremez_14:
tommo9999
08-12-2006, 22:42
I heard of you... Im only an SAC, but I often heard the seniors talk about you...did you enjoy it?? personally i would love reigning misery on others! i seem to be on the recieving end nearly 5 years in suicide central!
Absolutely loved it. Very challenging job, but as with most jobs like that, very rewarding. Busy, busy and spent a fair amount of my time justifying my job to the heirarchy. Job satisfaction was tremendous, it's not often as a shiney you get the chance to help as much as I hope I was able to. Not exactly sure where suicide central is, for some it's High Wycombe, for others it's Innsworth etc etc. Keep smiling!!
PSFbeatch
08-12-2006, 23:02
I've got to ask psfbeatch...I've read some/most of your posts that you've made so far and my question is this...Do you have a raincloud permanently over your head?
You sound like a grumpy old chief when you should be full of bright eyed enthusiasm and optimism...
Why do I feel like I should never have asked this...Doom inbound...:PDT_Xtremez_14:
lol ive been in 8 years and its been all doom and gloom some of it self inflicted some of it not and this jpa is just more gloom....
the raf as a whole seems like there is no logic, at the unit im at alike many others where accomodation is critical ie lots have people have spent lots of time in hotels and what do we do...?? we feel it necessary to splash out station radio? strange, i just dont get it
Vim_Fuego
08-12-2006, 23:13
lol ive been in 8 years and its been all doom and gloom some of it self inflicted some of it not and this jpa is just more gloom....
the raf as a whole seems like there is no logic, at the unit im at alike many others where accomodation is critical ie lots have people have spent lots of time in hotels and what do we do...?? we feel it necessary to splash out station radio? strange, i just dont get it
Take a step back and just look after your own little patch...If I sit at my desk and with the information available to me try to predict why the powers that be do what they do with manpower and resources blood begins to seep from my eyes and in the end my head just explodes!
In the end all our futures and 'careers' are controlled by the wind of change brought about by various senior officers ideas that are purely designed to get them one step more up the ladder and with scant regard for the consequences...
With this simple realisation you would think I would bash my paperwork in right now and apply to Tesco's tout sweet but as long as you realise that we all are pieces in these various peoples games and not to take it personally I can happily just plod on...It's never going to change and occaissionally you do get the odd good idea coming through...
Can't think of one at the moment but there must have been one...:PDT_Xtremez_17:
PSFbeatch
08-12-2006, 23:23
i do generally look after what ive got but ive only done 8 yrs and the raf has changed so much, look at what comes through halton, disrespectful undisciplined little poo heads who spoil it for the rest of us!
PSFbeatch
08-12-2006, 23:39
Absolutely loved it. Very challenging job, but as with most jobs like that, very rewarding. Busy, busy and spent a fair amount of my time justifying my job to the heirarchy. Job satisfaction was tremendous, it's not often as a shiney you get the chance to help as much as I hope I was able to. Not exactly sure where suicide central is, for some it's High Wycombe, for others it's Innsworth etc etc. Keep smiling!!
I cant not believe you had to justify your job! Who else would have done it? It often makes me chuckle when i hear people slate the drafters... the job must be thankless and enormous, they have no idea!
well ive tried bribing cheify with chocolates and allsorts but im still in the same place! i think he will come through for me though seems like a nice fella! other than that all i can do is keep smiling!
how are you finding germany?
tommo9999
09-12-2006, 09:43
I cant not believe you had to justify your job! Who else would have done it? It often makes me chuckle when i hear people slate the drafters... the job must be thankless and enormous, they have no idea!
well ive tried bribing cheify with chocolates and allsorts but im still in the same place! i think he will come through for me though seems like a nice fella! other than that all i can do is keep smiling!
how are you finding germany?
Chiefster is a top bloke, but you'll need to be quick - He's got Tranche 3 and finishes just before Xmas.
Germany is fantastic, so much more relaxed than PMA, got time to spend with my kids etc. And of course cheap beer, great travel, tax-free cars, great food .........
It.s definitely not suicide central.
woollymouse
10-12-2006, 15:35
i do generally look after what ive got but ive only done 8 yrs and the raf has changed so much, look at what comes through halton, disrespectful undisciplined little poo heads who spoil it for the rest of us!
If you think the new arrivals are that bad when they get to their permenant Units just imagine that they are like when they turn up at Halton, believe me they are an improvement by the time they are allowed to escape training.
PSFbeatch
10-12-2006, 15:53
If you think the new arrivals are that bad when they get to their permenant Units just imagine that they are like when they turn up at Halton, believe me they are an improvement by the time they are allowed to escape training.
why are we letting them through then... surely it should be quality not quantityalthough i cant talk they let me through lol!
woollymouse
10-12-2006, 16:11
DOn't ask me ask some one who works in an AFCO. Coupled with the fact that you can only take what civvy street throws at you.
PSFbeatch
10-12-2006, 16:14
DOn't ask me ask some one who works in an AFCO. Coupled with the fact that you can only take what civvy street throws at you.
very sad sorry state of affairs
tag_lincoln
11-12-2006, 10:07
Back to the original multiskilling idea, more variety, more options, better cv. Help justify trade existence as well.
woollymouse
12-12-2006, 21:52
Back to the original multiskilling idea, more variety, more options, better cv. Help justify trade existence as well.
Unless of course you are Med Admin.
Notsoblunt
13-12-2006, 22:05
Being one of those knackered old sweats who remembers working with a kardex, poster 64, the old Q6's for working out pay and gate counts, I feel qualified to say that 'moving the goal posts' for our particular specialisation is nothing new. There must be more of you out there who, like me, can remember when TG17 was just that - a group of different admin related trades - and not just Pers Admin.
Personally, I am glad that I was lucky to be selected for Tranche 3 and will soon be out of this madness. Some may see this as jumping ship, and they would be right in many respects. Having been through it soooo many times in the past, I for one am not prepared to do so again!
PS: Tommo - thanks for sorting out my current posting before buggering off to Deutschland.......... Didn't know then that this would turn out to be my last tour, but cheers again matey!
Sorry did I read it correctly. Tommo was proud to help!!!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_31: Dont make me choke again, please.
tommo9999
14-12-2006, 18:37
PS: Tommo - thanks for sorting out my current posting before buggering off to Deutschland.......... Didn't know then that this would turn out to be my last tour, but cheers again matey!
You're welcome, at least 1 happy customer in 5 years!! Good luck in civvy street.
Notsoblunt
09-01-2007, 20:44
Doomed! We're all doomed! :PDT_Xtremez_42:
No surprise there then. Our workload has been steadily increasing since SAMA first came in and again, we are to do more work with less people. I have yet to see or hear of any admin post that has had a decrease in work since JPA came in. Does anyone know of such a post?
Mine! But then I am 8,000 miles from the UK, with no other RAF personnel for at least 3,500 miles and only have a crusty old army colonel to convince that JPA is a bad thing.
Perhaps the lack of JPA is why I've just been told that when I return to the UK later this year (for discharge under tranche 3 of the RAF redundancies) that this post will be disbanded!
True Blue Jack
22-01-2007, 16:07
I've just heard a damaging rumour, our beloved Trade Sponsors think that the Pers Admin trade should take more jobs on.
They are thinking about merging parts of the trade with Med Admin/Int and MT Admin - in effect turning us into 'Jack of all trades, master of none'.
Happy to be proved wrong, however what do my fellow scribblies think?
PSFbeatch and others are right - this has been going around for ages. It's all about job protection, just like TG4 was about finding a job for TCOs once we started using e-mail instead of signals.
Last I heard DGMS had put the mokkers on us working as Med Centre receptionists - apparently working in P1, Top Secret registries, etc., doesn't prove we can keep our mouths shut about medical records . . .
One note of caution: I believe the WO Sec Sponsor is an e-goat member. No matter what your personal opinion (I've not met him yet) I don't think it's a good idea to call him a fat, lazy, useless w@nker on a public forum. Sorry, bo!!ocking over.
True Blue Jack
22-01-2007, 16:11
are you the famous tommo ex tg17 sgt drafter, or is that someone else?
Did you really have to ask? Look at Tommo's location . . . only ex-drafters get overseas postings now.
OMG what have I said? Are there any posts left in Saxa Vord? I'm going to start packing.:PDT_Xtremez_42:
tommo9999
22-01-2007, 16:17
Did you really have to ask? Look at Tommo's location . . . only ex-drafters get overseas postings now.
OMG what have I said? Are there any posts left in Saxa Vord? I'm going to start packing.:PDT_Xtremez_42:
Saxa Vord is lovely this time of year. Send me a postcard.
True Blue Jack
22-01-2007, 16:17
Being one of those knackered old sweats who remembers working with a kardex, poster 64, the old Q6's for working out pay and gate counts, I feel qualified to say that 'moving the goal posts' for our particular specialisation is nothing new. There must be more of you out there who, like me, can remember when TG17 was just that - a group of different admin related trades - and not just Pers Admin.
Ahhh, yes. Clerk Sec, Clerk Accts, Clerk GD, Typist, Data An, Court Recorder - not to mention the RAF GD/RAF Admin that we absorbed a few years back.
I'm not being nostalgic, I just remember my grandfather telling me all about it!
It's funny, but when the job evaluations were being done before P2K, I asked CASWO if any consideration would be made for the sheer versatility of our trade. I never did get an answer.
True Blue Jack
22-01-2007, 16:42
Saxa Vord is lovely this time of year. Send me a postcard.
As was noted on my last F6000 . . . "this airman keeps himself fit by pushing his luck"
tommo9999
22-01-2007, 16:49
As was noted on my last F6000 . . . "this airman keeps himself fit by pushing his luck"
I don't believe that. I'd pack some warm clothes for SV, or Lossie or MPA or wherever you end up.
True Blue Jack
22-01-2007, 17:04
I don't believe that. I'd pack some warm clothes for SV, or Lossie or MPA or wherever you end up.
Ellen sent me to Banja Luka for Christmas. I'm supposed to be knee deep in snow right now. Instead, it's been better weather than Cyprus. What can I say?
tommo9999
23-01-2007, 12:20
Ellen sent me to Banja Luka for Christmas. I'm supposed to be knee deep in snow right now. Instead, it's been better weather than Cyprus. What can I say?
Good man. I'm off to FI in August to do job in Stanley.
Some would say that the fat, lazy WO is not so fat and rather a busy old chap at the moment. Some have even heard him say that he is very passionate about the trade and it's future and he is making the best out of a bad lot. I even heard that it keeps him up at night worrying about it.
If making hard decisions, telling people how it is and looking at the bigger picture is being arrogant, then I would rather have that than someone supping tea and sticking their head in the sand. You cannot please everybody.
He knows that the guys and girls are equally passionate about having a future and want to continue doing the excellent job that they are already doing.
Similarly, I reckon he would not want a slanging match on this forum. Constructive is better than destructive - I reckon if you have something positive to say he might just listen to you. Pass the ideas along.
Anyway be quick - I hear he takes a nap in the afternoon after his 'fat boys' lunch!
Welcome to the Goat FLWO. Protocol suggests using the intro thread before venting one's spleen :PDT_Xtremez_30:
Shiny_Happy
28-01-2007, 19:41
here at Halton we are getting a briefing on Tuesday morning from some team or other (old-style FSV type people) about the ongoing review and what its implications are likely to be. Will let you know if anything of interest comes from it.
Hu Jardon
28-01-2007, 19:50
- I hear he takes a nap in the afternoon after his 'fat boys' lunch!
Quite right too - It is the law - after all thats the real meaning of WO Man
Warrant
Officers
Mandatory
Afternoon
Nap
:PDT_Xtremez_28:
OH yeah welcome to e-goat FLWO
Hu
Boarderlyne
28-01-2007, 22:43
Anyhoo, back to the topic on discussion. The last time I met the Trade Sponsor WO, it was a case of we have ideas, but no hard stats.
Tactical Admin Squadron (TAS) is an idea that has been bandied about for 15 years and the potential for it becoming a reality is remote, in my view, but at least the big boys are looking into it.
Other things, such as replacing stackers in SCAF, medics in Med Admin, Mess Managers and Cat Accts have also been chucked into the melting pot, but as other trades also need to justify their numbers, then it was always going to be a case of Trade Sponsors stripping to their waists and fighting like gypsys to try and beat the other trades in keeping jobs within the Trade Group.
Triple SA
29-01-2007, 15:32
Due to current suspension on postings to certain jobs, life currently on hold. Does the FLWO know when Drafters will be able to resume the normal service?
Similarly, I reckon he would not want a slanging match on this forum. Constructive is better than destructive - I reckon if you have something positive to say he might just listen to you. Pass the ideas along
How about having one of these message board thingies on the Sec Sponsors RAF Intranet site - could help with the flow of communication.....
The Mad Taffy
30-01-2007, 13:57
Hang on, this TAS thing was bandied about for years when I was in. We went from the DAG to this ****e! Sorry if it offends but there are very few in the trade that are tactical! Remember we're chairborne not airborne! And it'd be a total non starter.
On the subject of RMCs and their filing............argh, don't get me started!:PDT_Xtremez_42:
I thought the trade was downsizing and not taking on more tasks. We used to do a lot of Int stuff bout 10/12 years ago, but they had a review and changed a lot of posts to In An, if I remember correctly. Full Circle springs to mind if it is true.
Here's a thought, having discussed this at length with a fellow fecked off admin bod. Why not contract out all admin jobs under the mac and for any jobs which require sunshine travel etc, just give to sponsored reserves. That way you can have cheap civvies all the way through the myriad of jobs that we seem to have at half the price. (If this happens then I shall start doing the lottery, mystic meg better watch out.) Then the powers that be can Kill us off properly with a large lump sum, and not just keep us hanging around waiting for a mass PVR. Speaking from experience most of us shineys are sat wondering whether it all still worth it.
Off Topic I am waiting for the first JPA related suicide as well (think it's gonna be me first!) Almost 12 months of this system and we are still ironing out the bugs, some of which should hav been picked up before the roll out. Had a full head of hair Apr last year, and now.....
True Blue Jack
01-02-2007, 08:44
Here's a thought, having discussed this at length with a fellow fecked off admin bod. Why not contract out all admin jobs under the mac and for any jobs which require sunshine travel etc, just give to sponsored reserves. That way you can have cheap civvies all the way through the myriad of jobs that we seem to have at half the price. (If this happens then I shall start doing the lottery, mystic meg better watch out.) Then the powers that be can Kill us off properly with a large lump sum, and not just keep us hanging around waiting for a mass PVR. Speaking from experience most of us shineys are sat wondering whether it all still worth it.
Off Topic I am waiting for the first JPA related suicide as well (think it's gonna be me first!) Almost 12 months of this system and we are still ironing out the bugs, some of which should hav been picked up before the roll out. Had a full head of hair Apr last year, and now.....
Large lump sum? Is the weather nice on your planet?
Reformed Scribbly
01-02-2007, 16:20
Earlier posts have stated that most initiatives are instigated by senior officers wanting to get one rung up the ladder, can't disagree with that, however Shineys and your commissioned brethren Scribblies need to look up and see who our Air Rank support is.
Using the medic rumour, as it includes commissioned as well as non commissioned posts, it has been stymied at the moment as DGMS, a 2* has turned it down.
Who does the trade and branch have? Our current AOA is a 1*, where previously the post was a 2* level. AOA is also ACOS Spt at STC, so where fighting our corner, I believe, still has other local issues and pressures from above.
Bottom line, the branch/trade does not enjoy higher level support as much as other areas in the air force.
busbyboy
03-02-2007, 16:24
Some would say that the fat, lazy WO is not so fat and rather a busy old chap at the moment. Some have even heard him say that he is very passionate about the trade and it's future and he is making the best out of a bad lot. I even heard that it keeps him up at night worrying about it.
If making hard decisions, telling people how it is and looking at the bigger picture is being arrogant, then I would rather have that than someone supping tea and sticking their head in the sand. You cannot please everybody.
He knows that the guys and girls are equally passionate about having a future and want to continue doing the excellent job that they are already doing.
Similarly, I reckon he would not want a slanging match on this forum. Constructive is better than destructive - I reckon if you have something positive to say he might just listen to you. Pass the ideas along.
Anyway be quick - I hear he takes a nap in the afternoon after his 'fat boys' lunch!
If he hasn't got a sense of humour, perhaps he takes himself too seriously? Maybe a good time to change your voicemail message!
Boarderlyne
04-02-2007, 18:41
I do believe that the WO Trade Sponsor is trying to do his best for the trade, but with cutbacks and falling budgets, he is between a rock and a hard place in getting anywhere that will suit us troops. I believe that the f**k-up that is JPA may prove to be our salvation. Now before anyone goes mad and shoots me down, I will attempt to explain.
JPA is a commercial package that can deal with the run of the mill bod that stays in place year in year out. But our core skills are that we can pick up sticks and move to a new job and be a contributing asset in less than 2 weeks and it is our job to sort out JPA so that it can deal with our guys and gals going here, there and everywhere. Now I think that if the WO Trade Sponsor can sell our trade on that basis, then we should be good for a few more years yet and not be sold off so that MoD can replace us with cheaper civil servants who don't necessarily give a monkeys about results.
We are a responsible trade with fingers in lots of pies and should be able to use our skills and drills to keep the trade as a contributing member to the Service. In my last 3 jobs, my Service knowledge has counted for more than just being another Admin bod and I think that we have to ensure that we are flexible enough to deal with the hazards and the attempts to denigrate our trade in the next few years.
Gawd, that was far too serious for me! But seriously, DJ has got his Wobbly Orange and I believe that he is doing our best for us. I think that is how his hair has disappeared so much! :PDT_Xtremez_30:
True Blue Jack
05-02-2007, 08:35
I believe that the f**k-up that is JPA may prove to be our salvation.
I agree, in the long term. But I think it will take 5-10 years before the circle is complete, which is too late for most of us.
Humble Scribe
08-02-2007, 16:25
I've been a viewer of the site for only a while, and have been following this thread for a bit; I thought it about time that I had my two penneth on this subject. Firstly, I'm sure our Trade Sponsor is trying to do his best for the trade but in my opinion, it's much too little and a lot too late! The future of our trade has been rumbling on for many a year with the same ideas bouncing around but no bloody action being taken! Clerics in Med Centres, MT etc etc is not exactly a new philosophy but has anyone actually done anything to either promote or disuade the arguement? The problem, as I see it, is that too many a Trade Sponsor has taken on the job purely for the location and not for the kudos of the job and has sat happily in his Gloucester mansion not really giving a toss about fellow scribes so long as he can stay at Inns. Not saying for one minute that this applies to the current incumbent but I know there has been at least 5 Sponsors in the entire time I have been in my current post; not exactly any continuity there! That leads to my second point. Why on earth has the current trade review taken place after the last redundancy phase? Surely it should have been conducted before the redundancies were announced then 'they' would have had a better idea how many TG17 were actually needed for phase 3 instead of our usual 'finger in the air' routine. As usual the trade sells itself down the river and we'll end up with no promotion, no large redundancy pay off and no morale! My third (& final) point is this, why is the current trade review being conducted in a veil of secrecy? It's our trade for goodness (avoiding the 'F' word in my first posting!) sake! Why can't we know whats going on and what the future is likely to hold for those of us who actually want to have a future in the trade? Will the Fat Controller please stand up and let us know what is going on?!
Notsoblunt
08-02-2007, 17:12
I've been a viewer of the site for only a while, and have been following this thread for a bit; I thought it about time that I had my two penneth on this subject. Firstly, I'm sure our Trade Sponsor is trying to do his best for the trade but in my opinion, it's much too little and a lot too late! The future of our trade has been rumbling on for many a year with the same ideas bouncing around but no bloody action being taken! Clerics in Med Centres, MT etc etc is not exactly a new philosophy but has anyone actually done anything to either promote or disuade the arguement? The problem, as I see it, is that too many a Trade Sponsor has taken on the job purely for the location and not for the kudos of the job and has sat happily in his Gloucester mansion not really giving a toss about fellow scribes so long as he can stay at Inns. Not saying for one minute that this applies to the current incumbent but I know there has been at least 5 Sponsors in the entire time I have been in my current post; not exactly any continuity there! That leads to my second point. Why on earth has the current trade review taken place after the last redundancy phase? Surely it should have been conducted before the redundancies were announced then 'they' would have had a better idea how many TG17 were actually needed for phase 3 instead of our usual 'finger in the air' routine. As usual the trade sells itself down the river and we'll end up with no promotion, no large redundancy pay off and no morale! My third (& final) point is this, why is the current trade review being conducted in a veil of secrecy? It's our trade for goodness (avoiding the 'F' word in my first posting!) sake! Why can't we know whats going on and what the future is likely to hold for those of us who actually want to have a future in the trade? Will the Fat Controller please stand up and let us know what is going on?!
All valid points, Scribe, which I am sure we have all muttered in the past ourselves.
Unfortunately, I also entirely agree with you - which is part of the reason why I personally have taken the chance to 'jump ship' under Tranche 3, rather than see our trade get shafted once more by those who are more interested in staying in the Gloucester area than looking after our own troops.
As far as the secrecy surrounding our own trade is concerned, it is hardly in the best interests of the Innsworth Mafia to let those at the coal face have any input. After all, it would most likely threaten the cosy existence that the majority of the mafiosi have enjoyed whilst making their decisions and policies without actually having to leave fortress PMA. Oh, I'm for it now - shouldn't have mentioned the Mafia word, because we're constantly told that no such thing exists!
With the recent reshuffle of HQ PTC and HQ STC, I wonder how many will manage to do 12 months at High Wycombe before being miraculously returned to the Gloucestershire fold? It was exactly the same when we still had our school at Hereford (best posting in the UK in my opinion). Being only 40 miles from their 'home', the number of TG17 personnel posted in from Innsworth to non-instructional posts was astounding. (An instructional role was a 3-year screened tour, so no chance of getting them onto one of those!) What is more, the vast majority of them managed to get back to Innsworth after a year, only to be replaced by yet another one of their own - probably the next in line for a "longest in post" move!
Anyway, rant over for now............. better not say any more, 'cos I need to pick up my clearance chit and discharge papers in the very near future!!!:PDT_Xtremez_28:
Humble Scribe
08-02-2007, 21:09
Blunty,
The Mafiosi don't bother me (if they didn't do the job, we'd have to!). What ****es me off is that they are always in denial; we know it exists and they know we know, but still they deny it. Why the big secret? Just admit it and be a bit more open with all their procedures; maybe that would go a long way to getting the trade a better reputation.
Good luck in Civvy Street, hope the grass really is greener.
Notsoblunt
08-02-2007, 21:54
Blunty,
Good luck in Civvy Street, hope the grass really is greener.
So do I, mate, so do I - after 27 years of life in a blue suit, it is going to take some getting used to.
[QUOTE=Notsoblunt;66406]
As far as the secrecy surrounding our own trade is concerned, it is hardly in the best interests of the Innsworth Mafia to let those at the coal face have any input.
Notsoblunt - I think has a point, but we have all been guilty of proctecting our own corner at some stage in our lives. I think you will find that the FLWO is not part of the mafiaso, yes there is one, but it doesn't just exist in one location, it happens all over (RAF Scotland!). Anyway don't despair, things these days are never done in isolation and several experienced heads are better than one or two.
Got to sign off now, I think the FLWO is looking for his sense of humour, buried somewhere between the very dusty FitLinX card and the in tray.
To Infinity and beyond.
Humble Scribe
11-02-2007, 23:00
So, The Fat Controller has a FitLinx card and a sense of humour; there may be hope for the trade after all!!
True Blue Jack
12-02-2007, 08:16
Reading these posts makes me think the Trade Sponsor has a serious credibility crisis. I think it's time that he and his department came out in the open to put a stop to all this dangerous speculation that is going in within our trade.
And I don't mean by a faceless article in "Admin Matters" either. I remember the statement "98% satisfied with JPA training". There are lies, damned lies, and statistics!
Humble Scribe
12-02-2007, 13:37
My point exactly True Blue. If you want to put an end to the speculation and rumour-mongering, come out with a statement/letter stating exactly what this 'study' is looking at and what they hope the future of the trade will be. Won't happen though!
busbyboy
13-02-2007, 09:24
My point exactly True Blue. If you want to put an end to the speculation and rumour-mongering, come out with a statement/letter stating exactly what this 'study' is looking at and what they hope the future of the trade will be. Won't happen though!
Oh how my wife laughed when I told her that I was not the only cynical old git left in TG17 (well for a few more weeks anyway).
For those who have not yet managed to do so, I strongly advise getting hold of the latest MCSG paper on future structures. This has been shown on SOPEC (PM) courses and various other "officer-related" training modules recently. So the information is out there, it is just not being publicised.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I hate to say it, but I have been banging on about this for quite a while now (what, exactly, I hear?). As I pause to count my small redundancy payoff, it is not a pretty read and does not augur well for the future of the Trade. If you can get sight of this, it will shock you into a large measure of reality. Not only is the future not bright, nor orange, it is also not "blue suits", but civvies doing our jobs - with a few token numbers left to deploy and get shot at.
I take no pleasure whatsoever in this, but forewarned is forearmed.
:PDT_Xtremez_28:
The Sleepy Priest
13-02-2007, 22:10
As I'm brand new to this forum, and also being stuck in the middle of nowhere with the carrot crunchers' and a chf shark that doesn't believe in diseeminating any info onto the irks, cam anyone shed any light on the trade review thats apparently happening? First I have heard of it!!
Will help in my decision as to go when I jump or hopefully pushed!!
Humble Scribe
14-02-2007, 15:49
As I'm brand new to this forum, and also being stuck in the middle of nowhere with the carrot crunchers' and a chf shark that doesn't believe in diseeminating any info onto the irks, cam anyone shed any light on the trade review thats apparently happening? First I have heard of it!!
Will help in my decision as to go when I jump or hopefully pushed!!
Priest,
Tell your Chf Clk to get a job in the Trade Sponsors Office, - he'd do well!! (only joking DJ!)
Humble Scribe
16-02-2007, 15:10
Priest,
Sorry for not giving you a sensible answer! The truth is, I don't know what is really going on suffice as to say, the trade is inevitably being review following the introduction of JPA and the draw down of the RAF. You must have been aware of the rumours regarding moving TG17 into Med Centres & MT etc which have been going on for some time now but I don't believe that is what is being looked into at the moment.
TG17 is very vunerable to cuts & civilinisation; JPA was not going to pay for itself. I don't know if you've noticed, but there have been very few postings (assignments) in or out recently and that is, I guess, due to the fact that some posts will not be filled by blue suits anymore. Having spoken to quite a few collegues recently the word is that Works posts, TD or FDS posts, PA jobs and probably a few others will be phased out following the current 'review.' Drafters, or Career Managers, are not filling these posts once they are vacated as they are awaiting the outcome of the Trade review or MCSG paper (mention above).
Personally, I welcome change (for the better) and it has been coming for quite some time now but it has happened too late and without any acknowledgement that it was happening at all. I don't think we are alone in that though as I am unsure what notification the Clk Caterers or the Painters had on the end of their trades.
That's not to say it's the end of TG17 but probably the end as we know it! The trade will be streamlined with uniformed personnel only in core jobs or DAG's; this is a personal view and based on conversations with other clerks equally in the dark as I am.
Hope that sheds some light for you Priest as I've said these are my personal views based on 25 years experience and keeping my ears to the ground. Maybe you'll get you answers in Mar/Apr along with the rest of us!
I had heard the same rumours about posts which are likely to go. Now if the rumours are true then, I would like to offer this suggestion. With everything being chopped, do we really need a Trade Sponsor??????
Humble Scribe
16-02-2007, 19:23
I had heard the same rumours about posts which are likely to go. Now if the rumours are true then, I would like to offer this suggestion. With everything being chopped, do we really need a Trade Sponsor??????
Probably not. The Trade Sponsors will probably be cut too with one for the Techie Trades and one for the Support Trades.
True Blue Jack
16-02-2007, 19:37
I had heard the same rumours about posts which are likely to go. Now if the rumours are true then, I would like to offer this suggestion. With everything being chopped, do we really need a Trade Sponsor??????
Wow. For the first time in my life I find myself agreeing with Kernow.
Now I'm reduced to asking should anyone who ends a question with 6 punctuation marks be taken seriously?
Now I'm reduced to asking should anyone who ends a question with 6 punctuation marks be taken seriously?
Sorry my pie slipped and got stuck between the keys.
Probably not. The Trade Sponsors will probably be cut too with one for the Techie Trades and one for the Support Trades.
What do you think their titles will be; I think SERCo Engineering Manager and SERCo Support Manager are simple but catchy.
True Blue Jack
16-02-2007, 21:24
What do you think their titles will be; I think SERCo Engineering Manager and SERCo Support Manager are simple but catchy.
Close, but no cigar. I think it will be EDS Engineering Manager and EDS Support Manager. Additionally, promotion boards will be run by Camelot.
Close, but no cigar. I think it will be EDS Engineering Manager and EDS Support Manager. Additionally, promotion boards will be run by Camelot.
What do you mean will be?
True Blue Jack
16-02-2007, 21:49
What do you mean will be?
It's true then? You did get picked up?
Where did that rumour come from. It ain't true just like the real lottery I don't stand a chance.
True Blue Jack
16-02-2007, 21:56
Where did that rumour come from. It ain't true just like the real lottery I don't stand a chance.
Grumpy Tech told me. I think he said it 'cos I'd just taken a gobful of beer.
Grumpy Tech, who the fook's that?
WorsethanJPA
17-02-2007, 21:26
[QUOTE=The Sleepy Priest;68555]As I'm brand new to this forum, and also being stuck in the middle of nowhere with the carrot crunchers' and a chf shark that doesn't believe in diseeminating any info onto the irks, cam anyone shed any light on the trade review thats apparently happening? First I have heard of it!!
The Sleepy Priest,
Have no fear, unlike the Trade Sponspor, I am proactive and below is a heavily edited latest sitrep on the future (demise!) of our trade. Noticed that FLWO still hasn't answered my original post, pull your finger out DJ!!
Dear Colleagues,
RE-STRUCTURING OF THE ADMIN(SEC) BRANCH AND TRADE GROUP 17
(PERS ADMIN) SPECIALISATION
1. The last two issues of Admin Matters (Apr & Jul 06) highlighted ongoing studies and change programmes that have had, and will continue to have, an influence on the future of both Admin (Sec) and TG 17 cadres. The initiatives involved include the MTWS 5-driven manpower drawdown and the associated redundancy programme, the Admin “End To End” Review (AE2E), the CHQ transformation programme, the Defence Airfield Review, and in the longer term the RAF Manpower Capability and Structures Group (MCSG) Report. In addition to these activities we must also overlay the impact of the introduction of JPA to the RAF and the other Services, and the problems associated with the functionality that it offers in a number of areas.
2. The background to the various change programmes has been briefed regularly over the past 6 months at forums, such as the APS, and the issues that they present should be reasonably well understood. The challenges facing those who are seeking to shape the future of the branch and trade is to develop a way ahead that meets the short-term demands that arise principally from JPA, whilst at the same time adopting an approach that is coherent with the medium and longer term direction that we are likely to take. This is a difficult circle to square but one that is being aggressively pursued.
3. The detailed proposals of the AE2E review and MCSG are currently being scrutinized and an implementation plan developed. Given the complex inter-dependencies between the various workstrands, which must be viewed in the context of the prevailing pressures of the manpower drawdown, the current operational tempo and the performance of JPA, we are unlikely to finalize the way ahead on the short-term manpower requirement until sometime in Feb 07. Publicising the short-term future for both branch and trade remains a priority for the Branch/Trade Sponsor’s team, who expect to be in a position in Mar/Apr 07 to formally present the findings to the RAF at large. Formal agreement to the revised branch and trade structures proposed by MCSG and enactment of the wider-ranging proposals contained within the AE2E Review will require a further period of ratification and refinement, which may not be completed until 2008.
4. In moving forward we will aim to brigade our resources to meet the key demands placed upon the Admin (Sec) and TG17 cadres, evolving their structures to provide long-term sustainability.
5. The POCs for Secretarial and TG17 sponsor issues are Sqn Ldr J and WO D Numskull2, who are both located at CHQ High Wycombe within HQPTC A1 Division.
Signed on DII
Humble Scribe
18-02-2007, 15:39
I believe this is an extract of the letter sent out by 1* Admin chappy just before Christmas that was eagerly awaited and actually told us cock-all! The last two additions of Admin matters were equally lacking in hard facts (unless you wanted career profiles of the Sec Sponsor and his side-kick).
Don't hold you breath for an answer from FLWO; this is hardly the forum to provide that information anyway. Whilst it's easy to criticise the Sponsor, the decisions are coming from way above his pay band and and the only thing they're currently guilty of is not providing information to the trade as a whole. Their hands may well be tied in that respect as well. Whilst I don't have any fondness for the SS's office you can hardly blame the current incumbents for the ineptitude that has been going on for years.
True Blue Jack
19-02-2007, 09:58
and the only thing they're currently guilty of is not providing information to the trade as a whole.
That's the point. We are going along, not knowing if we have a job in the next couple of years.
Whilst I don't have any fondness for the SS's office you can hardly blame the current incumbents for the ineptitude that has been going on for years.
I don't blame them for past ineptitude, but only the current incumbents can improve things.
Chuffybum
19-02-2007, 10:03
Im a Techie and I can assure you that we've been in this boat for years. Multi-skilling, admin, accountantancy etc etc etc. Welcome to the modern Air Force.
Just a quick question to all you fellow staties out there....................does anyone know wether TG17 will no longer provide support to Stats?
True Blue Jack
19-02-2007, 16:19
Just a quick question to all you fellow staties out there....................does anyone know wether TG17 will no longer provide support to Stats?
I hope not; there are lies, damn lies and statistics. We're better off without them, and disguising them as 'Performance Indicators' does not fool anybody.:PDT_Xtremez_32:
In all seriousness, it is quite clear that if anybody does have an inkling what the future holds for TG17, then they are keeping it very close to their chests.
Just a quick question to all you fellow staties out there....................does anyone know wether TG17 will no longer provide support to Stats?
From what little I can gather I believe that stats posts, certainly on sqns, are safe. Thereagain remember when we were assimilated into the Borg, sorry Pers Admin, what we were told then. What goes around, comes around.
From what little I can gather I believe that stats posts, certainly on sqns, are safe. Thereagain remember when we were assimilated into the Borg, sorry Pers Admin, what we were told then. What goes around, comes around.
I have heard that anyone already in a Stats post and being posted or detached away are not being replaced!! Any thoughts?
Humble Scribe
21-02-2007, 13:32
I have heard that anyone already in a Stats post and being posted or detached away are not being replaced!! Any thoughts?
I don't think that's just the Statty posts it's most of the TG17 posts; until they know what's going on, there'll not be replacements for many of the vacated posts. If you read the Feb 07 Chf Clks Bulletin there's a litle bit of information on what's going on.
Still-a-statty
21-02-2007, 19:07
I'm on a Tonka Sqn at Marham, and we've got a new Stats Clerk posted in, after gapping the post for over a year, so some movement must still be going on.::/:
PSFbeatch
24-02-2007, 01:05
I'm on a Tonka Sqn at Marham, and we've got a new Stats Clerk posted in, after gapping the post for over a year, so some movement must still be going on.::/:
oddly... most of the SAC statty post on the sqns at marham have been gapped for long periods and they had a sudden iflux, ive just moved from there and I managed to get a posting.
Still-a-statty
24-02-2007, 02:02
Lets be honest, the management of TG17 have never wanted ex-statties and have done everything in in there power to dis-establish stattie post whererever the opportunity has presented itself.::/:
monobrow
24-02-2007, 08:24
oddly... most of the SAC statty post on the sqns at marham have been gapped for long periods and they had a sudden iflux
Thats soooo true... Been having gapped posts for up to 4 months, and now with manpower reductions their looking into whether Docs can be a secondary duty for one of the lads.......
I did chuckle!
True Blue Jack
24-02-2007, 11:08
Lets be honest, the management of TG17 have never wanted ex-statties and have done everything in in there power to dis-establish stattie post whererever the opportunity has presented itself.::/:
I think you're being a tad paranoid, mate. I just think with computer literacy levels soaring as they have been, data analysis is no longer the black art it used to be.
I think you're being a tad paranoid, mate. I just think with computer literacy levels soaring as they have been, data analysis is no longer the black art it used to be.
Have to disagree there. When you see some of the stuff that is produced by the local 'stats expert' with Excel it's pretty pants. Any monkey can use the software but try using it to produce a proper trend analysis or even something as simple as a 3 month rolling average. Excel can't do it properly and I doubt very much if anyone who did a Q-SEC-STATS course would be able to either.
True Blue Jack
25-02-2007, 13:00
Have to disagree there. When you see some of the stuff that is produced by the local 'stats expert' with Excel it's pretty pants. Any monkey can use the software but try using it to produce a proper trend analysis or even something as simple as a 3 month rolling average. Excel can't do it properly and I doubt very much if anyone who did a Q-SEC-STATS course would be able to either.
A mate of mine (ex-statty, took redundancy, now living in NZ) got the Stats course binned while he was instructing because it had become just a basic Excel course. I can only assume that the "pants" produced by monkeys on Excel are the kinds of stats that our lords and masters are interested in.
woollymouse
25-02-2007, 13:08
Lets be honest, the management of TG17 have never wanted ex-statties and have done everything in in there power to dis-establish stattie post whererever the opportunity has presented itself.::/:
I don't think the problem was the ex-statties coming into the Pers Admin trade, you were always part of trade Group 17 like the Court Recorders. It was the amaglamation of the RAF Admin (trade Group 10) into the trade that was the biggest bug bear. Yes there was and to a certain extent still is a rivalry between the Ex-Stats bods and the Pers Admins but at least the majority of your trade have made an effort, some of you are even very clued up (more than some clerks who were in from the start). At this time there is a push to disestablish Admin posts accross the board not just Stats slots, the view is why pay a Serviceman when a civvie can do the job for less.
A mate of mine (ex-statty, took redundancy, now living in NZ) got the Stats course binned while he was instructing because it had become just a basic Excel course. I can only assume that the "pants" produced by monkeys on Excel are the kinds of stats that our lords and masters are interested in.
Pretty coloured pictures are always nice, 'specially for senior orifices to look at, even if they don't know what it means.:PDT_Xtremez_15:
Humble Scribe
25-02-2007, 21:39
Pretty coloured pictures are always nice, 'specially for senior orifices to look at, even if they don't know what it means.:PDT_Xtremez_15:
Too right! From my experience nobody ever checks the stats that you provide (manpower/estabs/Manning etc) so as long as you give it a decent stab at, the top brass are more than happy whether you've spent 5 hours researching it or five minutes! Tell 'em what they want to hear and they're more than satisfied. As TBJ says, there are lies, damn lies and statistics!!
KingGuin
07-03-2007, 23:13
Because that's all they're good for?
You really think so?
Rumours abound at the moment.
Rumour 1 - The trade is going to be 200 Sgts overborne very soon.
Rumour 2 - The TS is reviewing the review of the review of the review and it is expected to be released in Apr/May.
Rumour 3 - Promotion is going to be cut back for a couple of years Cpl - Sgt due to Rumour 1.
Thoughts anyone?
Got some more rumours but will save those for Christmas.
True Blue Jack
13-03-2007, 23:19
Rumours abound at the moment.
Rumour 1 - The trade is going to be 200 Sgts overborne very soon.
Rumour 2 - The TS is reviewing the review of the review of the review and it is expected to be released in Apr/May.
Rumour 3 - Promotion is going to be cut back for a couple of years Cpl - Sgt due to Rumour 1.
Thoughts anyone?
Got some more rumours but will save those for Christmas.
Put that rumour back in the box until after June! Look on the bright side: we made 165 sgts and above redundant in Tranche 3, add a few more for natural wastage and those who PVR'd when they didn't get redundancy. For Rumour 1 to be correct we must have disestablished 400 of 550 sgt posts. From my own corner of the RAF we have not gone quite that far.
Humble Scribe
13-03-2007, 23:20
Rumours abound at the moment.
Rumour 1 - The trade is going to be 200 Sgts overborne very soon.
Rumour 2 - The TS is reviewing the review of the review of the review and it is expected to be released in Apr/May.
Rumour 3 - Promotion is going to be cut back for a couple of years Cpl - Sgt due to Rumour 1.
Thoughts anyone?
You came back to that thread then!
Rumour 1. Considering the re-org of PMA6, the supposed downgrading of PA slots and probably a few similar together with the need to re-address the 'pyramid' extremely likely. So what do we do with the 200?
a. Promote them?
b. Make them redundant, or
c. Feck them off so much with no promotion or redundancy payment that they PVR?
Rumour 2. No brainer really.
Rumour 3. Been there done that one in the 90's but likely to happen again!
Only hope for the Sgt posts is the 'rumour' that the SAMA Ops Manager posts, in the guise of JPA Managers, will be re-introduced but there's no reason that these should be Sgt posts.
You came back to that thread then!
Rumour 1. Considering the re-org of PMA6, the supposed downgrading of PA slots and probably a few similar together with the need to re-address the 'pyramid' extremely likely. So what do we do with the 200?
a. Promote them?
b. Make them redundant, or
c. Feck them off so much with no promotion or redundancy payment that they PVR?
Rumour 2. No brainer really.
Rumour 3. Been there done that one in the 90's but likely to happen again!
Only hope for the Sgt posts is the 'rumour' that the SAMA Ops Manager posts, in the guise of JPA Managers, will be re-introduced but there's no reason that these should be Sgt posts.
With the alleged 25 to be/have been selected for sgt-FS I think option c is most likely. I am aware of one (good mate of yours TBJ) who is talking of putting the papers in to go.
WRT the JPA Managers it would be more likely to go to cpls than sgts I would of thought. I believe that was discussed a long time ago for SAMA Ops.
WRT Rumour 3 that was always a distinct possibility having lived through the 90s promotion drought it's hard not to think it's coming again real soon regardless of what those in the know say.
With the review I believe the PA posts are not safe at all with possible civilianisation but that is the same for just about all the non HR posts again this happened in the 90s with accounts etc.
The plan for me is sit back and wait. June is a big month for me personally but with other irons in the fire I am not going to get too excited.
Ho hum
True Blue Jack
13-03-2007, 23:52
With the alleged 25 to be/have been selected for sgt-FS I think option c is most likely. I am aware of one (good mate of yours TBJ) who is talking of putting the papers in to go.
I'm not surprised. He was (rightly) disappointed with the outcome of last year's sgt-FS board. He used me as a sounding board for weeks after that.
KingGuin
16-03-2007, 00:05
Just give it a couple of years and just burrow our heads into the JPA desk manuals!! Admin is going exactly the same way as Chefs & MTD's a few years ago where once they had got rid of everyone they quickly realised that they had screwed the pooch and then spent 2002 - 2004 trying like hell to recruit as many back as they could persuade.
Once the almighty realise that JPAC is FUBAR'd it will only be a matter of time before some tosspot is going to come up with the idea that pay issues should really be dealt with by uniformed personnel at unit level. They will probably get their 2 star and medals out of it whilst the rest of us continue to beat our heads off of our desks at the sheer stupidity of it all.
In the meantime, as listed in the posts above, it is now a case of TG17 being made to look as productive as possible. Never mind that JPA is a bag of bollox, it's okay that we have had our numbers decimated, lets see what else can be tinkered with to screw us over. Still waiting to hear who the 1st RAF Pers Admin is going to be shafted onto in a RN or Army role because of their drastic decline in numbers. Anyone fancy a six month tour on board the love boat??
All I can say is AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Many a true word oft spoke in jest" said old Bill Shakespeare. Now if my top level highly placed mole is correct, the British Army are trying to get the RAF to accept a number (greater than 60, less than 80) posts OOA in a dusty opium field far from Blighty. If approved, I am told some of those posts will be TG17 and the tour length will be 6 months. As the GSM used to say to me in my last tour...."Stag on Soldier". Which was strange considering I am in the RAF, or I will be until the next OOA!
tommo9999
16-03-2007, 08:33
"Many a true word oft spoke in jest" said old Bill Shakespeare. Now if my top level highly placed mole is correct, the British Army are trying to get the RAF to accept a number (greater than 60, less than 80) posts OOA in a dusty opium field far from Blighty. If approved, I am told some of those posts will be TG17 and the tour length will be 6 months. As the GSM used to say to me in my last tour...."Stag on Soldier". Which was strange considering I am in the RAF, or I will be until the next OOA!
This will definitely happen. Soon.
True Blue Jack
16-03-2007, 10:35
6-month OOAs for non-formed units are the way forward, it's what the Navy and Army have done for a long time, and in this age of jointery we are running out of excuses to have shorter tours.
Pros: The guys in critically-manned trades (MTD, Chef, etc.) will get more time at home between Op tours.
Cons: The RN and Army do their Op tours in between normal postings, but we just abandon our jobs for the length of the tour and have to pick up the pieces when we get back. Factor in pre-deployment training and POL and an extended tour length will take as away from our normal place of duty for 8/9 months. I can see us going down the road of fixed tour lengths, i.e., 2 - 3 years with an Op tour between each, or at best, every other posting. Sorry, assignment, just can't get used to it!
Humble Scribe
16-03-2007, 12:56
If we do pick up any Army/Navy posts for OOA Ops, lets hope they send some Wobblies out there; I can't believe there are so few Wobbly posts OOA in TG17 and it might mean that some of them pull the plug on their illustrious careers and get some promotion going again. If not, we could end up in the same position as the Chefs, FFtrs & drivers with DWR every 12 months or so for jnr ranks.
If we do pick up any Army/Navy posts for OOA Ops, lets hope they send some Wobblies out there; I can't believe there are so few Wobbly posts OOA in TG17 and it might mean that some of them pull the plug on their illustrious careers and get some promotion going again. If not, we could end up in the same position as the Chefs, FFtrs & drivers with DWR every 12 months or so for jnr ranks.
The lack of Wobbly OOA posts is probably due to the lack of Colostomy Bag changing facilities away from home.
I firmly believe that the system will change from 4-6 months in the not too distant future. To be honest it is long overdue, not only to bring us in line with the other 2 services but also to try and alleviate the pinch on the frequency of going away. If the powers that be can bring in a new plan (that works) to reduce the amount of prep time then maybe it will be for the better. One possibility is to change the CCS into a more focussed piece of annual training would help. Increase to 2-3 days involving the practical soldiering rather than what we have now would possibly negate the need for the 2 week course or possibly reduce that time. May not be the perfect solution but what is.
True Blue Jack
16-03-2007, 17:59
May not be the perfect solution but what is.
Reduction in operational commitments and/or increases in numbers of personnel. Simple, really.:PDT_Xtremez_30:
Humble Scribe
16-03-2007, 18:31
Kernow/TBJ you both make really valid points. Like you've said the problem with 6 month dets is the time spent away from primary duties and I don't think the answer is 2-3 year postings with dets in between; you only have to look at our commissioned colleagues to see that doesn't work! Maybe the future's on a Tactical Admin Wing who fill the OOA posts from within their own resources, I think its coming!
True Blue Jack
16-03-2007, 21:24
Kernow/TBJ you both make really valid points. Like you've said the problem with 6 month dets is the time spent away from primary duties and I don't think the answer is 2-3 year postings with dets in between; you only have to look at our commissioned colleagues to see that doesn't work! Maybe the future's on a Tactical Admin Wing who fill the OOA posts from within their own resources, I think its coming!
The concept of Tac Admin Wg has been around since before I joined up (a long time!). The only problem I see is that the nature of our duties makes it difficult for us to operate in the same way as Tac Comms, Med, or Supply. It's one thing to set up a new operation, but we come into our own on sustained operations.
Not insurmountable, of course, but I think it would take a hefty establishment (200+?) to make TAW work, and it would necessarily have a disproportionately high number of officers. These bodies would have to come from currently established posts, which would be met with fierce resistance from Units.
I suppose anything has to be better than the fiasco that was DAG.:PDT_Xtremez_35:
Humble Scribe
16-03-2007, 21:31
The concept of Tac Admin Wg has been around since before I joined up (a long time!). The only problem I see is that the nature of our duties makes it difficult for us to operate in the same way as Tac Comms, Med, or Supply. It's one thing to set up a new operation, but we come into our own on sustained operations.
Not insurmountable, of course, but I think it would take a hefty establishment (200+?) to make TAW work, and it would necessarily have a disproportionately high number of officers. These bodies would have to come from currently established posts, which would be met with fierce resistance from Units.
I suppose anything has to be better than the fiasco that was DAG.:PDT_Xtremez_35:
Since when did the Units have a say in what goes on?
ForgottenName
16-03-2007, 21:50
Since when did the Units have a say in what goes on?
TBJ has got it right. TAW is a non-starter with funding being as it is today. HS, you would be surprised how much units do get listened to.
True Blue Jack
16-03-2007, 21:51
Since when did the Units have a say in what goes on?
From the mouth of DCDS(Pers) last summer: The reason we don't have blue suits in the JPAC back offices is because at an OC Admin Wg conference prior to JPA rollout, the wingcos protested that they could only take a 20% cut in our manpower if they retained what was left at Unit level. Hindsight being a wonderful teacher, not the best idea they ever had.
ForgottenName
16-03-2007, 21:59
From the mouth of DCDS(Pers) last summer: The reason we don't have blue suits in the JPAC back offices is because at an OC Admin Wg conference prior to JPA rollout, the wingcos protested that they could only take a 20% cut in our manpower if they retained what was left at Unit level. Hindsight being a wonderful teacher, not the best idea they ever had.
I believe that the decision not to put blue suits in the JPAC was made a long time beore the current DCDS (Pers) was in post. Remember, JPAC is run by AFPAA and EDS and to put blue suits in is an expensive option for them. You may recall when blue suits worked for EDS at Innsworth before JPA came into being, blue suits were having to record all their diverson time as the company wanted to make sure that they got their pint of blood from them.
Personnally, I don't think that the wg cdrs got it wrong - I think all units are struggling at the moment.
Humble Scribe
16-03-2007, 22:02
TBJ has got it right. TAW is a non-starter with funding being as it is today. HS, you would be surprised how much units do get listened to.
I agree that funding would be a concern but it didn't stop them introducing JPA did it?
TBJ, since when did OC A's have a clue what could, or could not, be cut at unit level? or indeed what the feck goes on in PSF/Admin offices!
FN, too damn right I'd be surprised but I do work in JHC and we are the forgotten few!
ForgottenName
16-03-2007, 22:11
I agree that funding would be a concern but it didn't stop them introducing JPA did it?
TBJ, since when did OC A's have a clue what could, or could not, be cut at unit level? or indeed what the feck goes on in PSF/Admin offices!
FN, too damn right I'd be surprised but I do work in JHC and we are the forgotten few!
For the RAF, keeping the mainframe going plus SAMA was costing the earth, so something had to be done, if for us alone. The Army had Unicom, which, professionals will tell you needed replacing. Whilst the RN will defend PAS to the hilt, most will agree that a tri-Service system was the way forward. If you think you are the forgotten few (I like that, goes with my name), then you must speak out when given the chance.
True Blue Jack
16-03-2007, 22:18
I believe that the decision not to put blue suits in the JPAC was made a long time beore the current DCDS (Pers) was in post. Remember, JPAC is run by AFPAA and EDS and to put blue suits in is an expensive option for them. You may recall when blue suits worked for EDS at Innsworth before JPA came into being, blue suits were having to record all their diverson time as the company wanted to make sure that they got their pint of blood from them.
Personnally, I don't think that the wg cdrs got it wrong - I think all units are struggling at the moment.
The general lack of Service knowledge in the JPAC is one of the things that is undermining the whole JPA project. I don't know if you have paid a visit to either of the Enquiry Centres; if you haven't it is well worth the trip. A greater level of service from the ECs than we have enjoyed so far would vastly ease the burden on my small corner of the RAF; I am sure the same is true for everybody.
HS, you are so right. I've had OC PSFs who didn't have much of a clue what went on in Gen Office (I've also had some very good ones), but almost without exception they have forgotten much of what they may have learned by the time they take up an OC Admin/OC BSW appointment. Plus, of course, the Stn Cdr's priorities for OC BSW are invariably infrastructure and security.
Even so, a year or 2 before go-live, before we knew what we know now, I think most of us would have agreed with the decision to keep the clerks at the sharp end.
Boarderlyne
16-03-2007, 22:26
The concept of Tac Admin Wg has been around since before I joined up (a long time!). The only problem I see is that the nature of our duties makes it difficult for us to operate in the same way as Tac Comms, Med, or Supply. It's one thing to set up a new operation, but we come into our own on sustained operations.
Not insurmountable, of course, but I think it would take a hefty establishment (200+?) to make TAW work, and it would necessarily have a disproportionately high number of officers. These bodies would have to come from currently established posts, which would be met with fierce resistance from Units.
I suppose anything has to be better than the fiasco that was DAG.:PDT_Xtremez_35:
Agree with the manning level, but it should not be that top heavy. One decent Wobbly Orange and all the wannabe DAOs will melt into the background. Come on down Mr 14 Feb (if I have to explain the name, then get some time in! :PDT_Xtremez_30: )
ForgottenName
16-03-2007, 22:27
The general lack of Service knowledge in the JPAC is one of the things that is undermining the whole JPA project. I don't know if you have paid a visit to either of the Enquiry Centres; if you haven't it is well worth the trip. A greater level of service from the ECs than we have enjoyed so far would vastly ease the burden on my small corner of the RAF; I am sure the same is true for everybody.
HS, you are so right. I've had OC PSFs who didn't have much of a clue what went on in Gen Office (I've also had some very good ones), but almost without exception they have forgotten much of what they may have learned by the time they take up an OC Admin/OC BSW appointment. Plus, of course, the Stn Cdr's priorities for OC BSW are invariably infrastructure and security.
Even so, a year or 2 before go-live, before we knew what we know now, I think most of us would have agreed with the decision to keep the clerks at the sharp end.
Can't agree with you more about the level of Service knowledge in the JPAC ECs. Although, I believe that you get a better service from one end of the country than you do from the other - not that they would admit that of course. Could be to do with the 21,000 people (I think that is the figure that was being talked about this morning when they were talking about cutting the Navy from one of the areas) in the area who have Service connections at one place, whilst the other has to rely on agency staff. That said, and I do not want to wash our dirty linen in public, there are TG17 personnel who have not been as proactive as they could have been. Although, in our defence, the training that we have had was not fit for purpose. That is because the article was not fit for purpose on delivery, never mind the training. I firmly believe that, had it not been for the professionalism of RAF TG17, then the RAF as a whole would have had a much bigger problem with the implementation of JPA.
True Blue Jack
16-03-2007, 22:29
Can't agree with you more about the level of Service knowledge in the JPAC ECs. Although, I believe that you get a better service from one end of the country than you do from the other - not that they would admit that of course. Could be to do with the 21,000 people (I think that is the figure that was being talked about this morning when they were talking about cutting the Navy from one of the areas) in the area who have Service connections at one place, whilst the other has to rely on agency staff. That said, and I do not want to wash our dirty linen in public, there are TG17 personnel who have not been as proactive as they could have been. Although, in our defence, the training that we have had was not fit for purpose. That is because the article was not fit for purpose on delivery, never mind the training. I firmly believe that, had it not been for the professionalism of RAF TG17, then the RAF as a whole would have had a much bigger problem with the implementation of JPA.
Hear hear!
Humble Scribe
16-03-2007, 22:43
Having worked in (for) EDS/AFPAA since conception, I am only too aware of who provided the anwers to units on their pay queries (and they didn't leave work at 4 O'Clock every day). The Blue suits in EDS were unsure from month to month whether they would still have a job at Inns but a few of them took up the option of employment with EDS and thank feck they did (and still do). You will never be able to replace 20 odd years service experience with a guy off the street and somebody should have had the forethought to leave at least a few service personnel in the JPAC.
Yes, I have visited and it is an eye opener. Whilst I was there a vetran rang up about his Suez medal; the operative forwarded his enquiry to the medal section entitled, "SEWARS MEDAL" nuff said!
Personnally, I'd forego one of my clerks for a (wo)man on the inside, save us a lot of work. There are some good civvies in Glasgow (as there was at Inns) but if you pay peanuts............
True Blue Jack
16-03-2007, 22:48
Personnally, I'd forego one of my clerks for a (wo)man on the inside, save us a lot of work. There are some good civvies in Glasgow (as there was at Inns) but if you pay peanuts............
Wow, I think we've all just agreed on something. I haven't seen FLWO on here for a while. I wish he was reading it now.
KingGuin
16-03-2007, 22:51
Having worked in (for) EDS/AFPAA since conception, I am only too aware of who provided the anwers to units on their pay queries (and they didn't leave work at 4 O'Clock every day). The Blue suits in EDS were unsure from month to month whether they would still have a job at Inns but a few of them took up the option of employment with EDS and thank feck they did (and still do). You will never be able to replace 20 odd years service experience with a guy off the street and somebody should have had the forethought to leave at least a few service personnel in the JPAC.
Yes, I have visited and it is an eye opener. Whilst I was there a vetran rang up about his Suez medal; the operative forwarded his enquiry to the medal section entitled, "SEWARS MEDAL" nuff said!
Personnally, I'd forego one of my clerks for a (wo)man on the inside, save us a lot of work. There are some good civvies in Glasgow (as there was at Inns) but if you pay peanuts............
I did forego some of my clerks......(comedy pause) about 30% of them!
ForgottenName
16-03-2007, 22:52
Wow, I think we've all just agreed on something. I haven't seen FLWO on here for a while. I wish he was reading it now.
Don't worry, I have heard that FLWO reads this page avidly. I have heard that he is taking a well earned rest this week - sailing?
ForgottenName
16-03-2007, 22:53
Having worked in (for) EDS/AFPAA since conception, I am only too aware of who provided the anwers to units on their pay queries (and they didn't leave work at 4 O'Clock every day). The Blue suits in EDS were unsure from month to month whether they would still have a job at Inns but a few of them took up the option of employment with EDS and thank feck they did (and still do). You will never be able to replace 20 odd years service experience with a guy off the street and somebody should have had the forethought to leave at least a few service personnel in the JPAC.
Yes, I have visited and it is an eye opener. Whilst I was there a vetran rang up about his Suez medal; the operative forwarded his enquiry to the medal section entitled, "SEWARS MEDAL" nuff said!
Personnally, I'd forego one of my clerks for a (wo)man on the inside, save us a lot of work. There are some good civvies in Glasgow (as there was at Inns) but if you pay peanuts............
I was not saying that the people at Glasgow are not good people. The supervisors are top notch, but they can only work with what they have got - agency staff.
Humble Scribe
16-03-2007, 23:00
I was not saying that the people at Glasgow are not good people. The supervisors are top notch, but they can only work with what they have got - agency staff.
and what do you think we had at Inns for the last few years? A lot of the ex-blue-suiters were agency staff but they were never going to work in Glasgow (JP excepted).
ForgottenName
16-03-2007, 23:01
!
Personnally, I'd forego one of my clerks for a (wo)man on the inside, .....
Sorry HS, just read that again, the red wine is kicking in, I read is " I'd forego one of my clerks to be inside a woman.
Sorry moderators - off topic I know, but eh.
KingGuin
16-03-2007, 23:03
Sorry HS, just read that again, the red wine is kicking in, I read is " I'd forego one of my clerks to be inside a woman.
Sorry moderators - off topic I know, but eh.
FN you really need to get out (on the road) more LOL!!!
True Blue Jack
16-03-2007, 23:04
and what do you think we had at Inns for the last few years? A lot of the ex-blue-suiters were agency staff but they were never going to work in Glasgow (JP excepted).
Ah, JP. That man has done me so many favours over the years I don't think I could every repay him.
Humble Scribe
16-03-2007, 23:05
Sorry HS, just read that again, the red wine is kicking in, I read is " I'd forego one of my clerks to be inside a woman.
Sorry moderators - off topic I know, but eh.
LOL. You met my clerks?
Humble Scribe
16-03-2007, 23:06
Ah, JP. That man has done me so many favours over the years I don't think I could every repay him.
I taught him all he knows - but don't tell him!!
ForgottenName
16-03-2007, 23:10
I taught him all he knows - but don't tell him!!
Come on, now who is deluding oneself. LOL.
KingGuin
16-03-2007, 23:11
I taught him all he knows - but don't tell him!!
Are we talking about JP, ex 22 SNCO, and all round pay God and Guru? If so them the man out to have a statue erected to his genius; if not, I'll get me coat!
Humble Scribe
16-03-2007, 23:14
Are we talking about JP, ex 22 SNCO, and all round pay God and Guru? If so them the man out to have a statue erected to his genius; if not, I'll get me coat!
That's the fellow. All we have to do is clone JP and we have the answer to the JPA conundrum!
ForgottenName
16-03-2007, 23:16
That's the fellow. All we have to do is clone JP and we have the answer to the JPA conundrum!
Unfortunately, he is going. No intention of going to Glasgow.
KingGuin
16-03-2007, 23:17
Just chatting to a mate of mine to be told JP is being made redundant; thats
sh1te. Let's start a campaign to have him reinstated!
Humble Scribe
16-03-2007, 23:22
Just chatting to a mate of mine to be told JP is being made redundant; thats
sh1te. Let's start a campaign to have him reinstated!
I'm in!! The mans an institution; there goes my last contact in JPA Land!!
You go away for five minutes and the forum page fills up! Anyway, contrary to any rumours posted here or any number of other rumours that I have heard - the trade is still alive and kicking. A lot of people are jumping to conclusions - usually the wrong ones - but no decisions have been made yet - which is why you haven't heard anything.
Rest assured that there are people representing the B&T who have a vested interest in it's future.
I thought about starting the rumour that we should all go back to Hereford - reminiscing of Wednesday 'sports' afternoons down the Market Tavern and dodgy nights in the Crystal Ball rooms - heh ho.
True Blue Jack
27-03-2007, 16:51
You go away for five minutes and the forum page fills up! Anyway, contrary to any rumours posted here or any number of other rumours that I have heard - the trade is still alive and kicking. A lot of people are jumping to conclusions - usually the wrong ones - but no decisions have been made yet - which is why you haven't heard anything.
Rest assured that there are people representing the B&T who have a vested interest in it's future.
I thought about starting the rumour that we should all go back to Hereford - reminiscing of Wednesday 'sports' afternoons down the Market Tavern and dodgy nights in the Crystal Ball rooms - heh ho.
Which begs the question, when can we expect some decisions to be made?
Hereford is re-opening, you heard if from FLWO! :PDT_Xtremez_31:
Warwick Hunt
27-03-2007, 16:58
Which begs the question, when can we expect some decisions to be made?
Hereford is re-opening, you heard if from FLWO! :PDT_Xtremez_31:
Hallelujah Brother!
Humble Scribe
27-03-2007, 20:00
I thought about starting the rumour that we should all go back to Hereford - reminiscing of Wednesday 'sports' afternoons down the Market Tavern and dodgy nights in the Crystal Ball rooms - heh ho.
Welcome back FLWO! Best rumour I've heard in years and I was just about to rush back to work to change my employment preferences however I suddenly realised that, should the rumour be true, there will already be AO raised for 90% of the career managers, careers advice officers (sorry we don't have them anymore do we!), and Trade Sponsors who would prefer to travel west on the A40 rather than east (as they've already filled up the AT base) and retain their Glos mansions!! Never mind I'll have to settle for dreaming of those halcyon days!
Looking forward to hear what you have to say on 25/26 Apr and putting all those rumours firmly to bed!
KingGuin
27-03-2007, 23:34
Hereford is re-opening, you heard if from FLWO! :PDT_Xtremez_31:[/QUOTE]
Off Topic Off Topic Crystal Rooms...sighs..... no-one told me she was the Stn Cdr's daughter.......Off Topic Off Topic
Which begs the question, when can we expect some decisions to be made?
Hereford is re-opening, you heard if from FLWO! :PDT_Xtremez_31:
This is the Air Farce TBJ, you don't get decisions made, just more reviews to discuss the previous review.
Seriously, it would be good to have some sort of update (official) which give us a good indication of what these people are thinking. Yes there are many rumours flying round and I admit to passing on a few. Some Chf Clks are repeating these rumours and the young lads are taking them as gospel. The rumours I have heard are: that the decision on what posts we will be required to fill in the future are changing daily as they don't have a clue where the trade is going. That this review which I believe was due to end in Aug last year could go on for at least another 6 months with no action from the review until another 6 months after that. Also that the trade is likely to be approx 200 Sgts overborne. Now I don't know how true these are but it would be good to see something coming out of the TS to give us an update and hopefully kill most of the rumours.
Off Topic Any hoo, I'm sorry guys and gals but I had been led to believe that 'Sticky Carpets' is no longer with us. I had been told that it had changed in to a trendy bar with polished wood floor (carpets were burnt). Shame really it was the best place in town (maybe the only place) for a decent 'Grab a Granny' nite. Then again being 16 and an arf when I was there everyone was old enough to be my granny!
Might be just over 200 left after the cuts. But I'm only guessing.
If it is correct then where does it leave those aspiring to gain their 3rd? The promise of no affect on promotion with redundancy etc doesn't seem to be ringing true.
Are they hoping that the 200 will leave shortly either time served or just generally fcuked off.
True Blue Jack
28-03-2007, 13:28
If it is correct then where does it leave those aspiring to gain their 3rd? The promise of no affect on promotion with redundancy etc doesn't seem to be ringing true.
Ar ethey hoping that the 200 will leave shortly either time served or just generally fcuked off.
Wait until June, mate. If there has been no announcement on the future of the trade by then, the promotion board/drafters will have no choice but to work according to today's establishment. We may both get lucky.
Humble Scribe
28-03-2007, 13:30
I thought we were due to hear something at the Chf Clks conference next month. There's certainly some promotions going on at the moment - just ask the FS's in PMA6!
I thought we were due to hear something at the Chf Clks conference next month. There's certainly some promotions going on at the moment - just ask the FS's in PMA6!
That is the problem though, the unrest and uncertainty is now. Why do we have to keep waiting for information on what is happening. Why aren't they coming out with a this is where its going brief to all the CCs so that they can update everyone. This could possibly squash most of the rumours out there at the moment.
Wait until June, mate. If there has been no announcement on the future of the trade by then, the promotion board/drafters will have no choice but to work according to today's establishment. We may both get lucky.
I given up worrying about it, I played the waiting game last year. Put up with different things (you know what I mean) and it got me nowhere. The plan is to just sit back relax and enjoy life. If it comes to me great if not, then I'm sure Tescos will still be recruiting night shelf stackers when I leave.
Humble Scribe
28-03-2007, 19:23
That is the problem though, the unrest and uncertainty is now. Why do we have to keep waiting for information on what is happening. Why aren't they coming out with a this is where its going brief to all the CCs so that they can update everyone. This could possibly squash most of the rumours out there at the moment.
Because those that are making the decisions don't even know themselves yet - it changes on a daily basis; lets face it they've only had 6 or 7 years to come up with a plan, give them time FFS!
Just a quick question to all you fellow staties out there....................does anyone know wether TG17 will no longer provide support to Stats?
My view is that Statties will always be phased out at the earliest opportunity even though I am acutely aware that there would still be work that would be need to be done by somebody [civil servants]. If the trade sponsors get their way, all stattie posts will be civilianised as soon as possible so that personnel in these posts can be used for 'throughbred' Pers Admin roles!
:raf:
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