Argentina for Six Nations

[auchtermuchty]

From reading the telegraph online this morning about the RSA government cancelling the colour quota, I noticed the comment below.....

Changing subjects there is a wonderful news for the rugby world, the Argentine Rugby Union had decided that our national rugby team should be professional from now on. During a press conference, which took place yesterday Alejandro Risler the chairman of the Rugby Union with Hugo Porta and other members of the board, with the presence of most of the Club members of the Union had decided unanimously that our national team will became professional, they had added that only the national team will be in this category, the rest of the players, some 65,000 will continue playing rugby amateur but not professional Most of the clubs agreed that we shall keep amateurism at a national level, to maintain the old spirit of rugby, which gave us the third place in the recent World Cup. Only those chosen to play internationally will be professional, if possible in the Six Nations championship or the Three Nations Tournament in the Southern Hemisphere. The Argentine Rugby Union said that some eighty players had already been chosen, considering their outstanding performance in our national championships, and some thirty five others as well, who are playing abroad with great success. These players will be “le corp d’Élite”, which will start to play internationally soon. Most of the Argentine rugby leaders anticipate that our Pumas will play in Europe in the Six Nations Cup, instead of playing in with Southern Hemisphere’s countries like Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. They feel that our players will be more comfortable playing in Europe. The UAR will send an official letter to the IRB this December requesting the inclusion of Los Pumas in the international agenda of this institution.
Posted by wetzvonken on November 7, 2007 1:36 AM

Having looked at the Argentine Rugby website, it seems to bear out what this guy is saying (although my Spanish is decidedly ropier than it used to be). It seems the Pumas are not willing to wait for the Rugby world to act on their behalf....good on them I say!!

[mightyhunter]

Although the majority of their players ply their trade in Europe, the country's gobal position, I feel, means they should take part in the TriNations.

[wolfy]

Well at least they are being proactive about professionalism, which is more than can be said about England when it came. Although in hindsight they do have the advantage of learning from others mistakes.

As to joining the six nations it has to be good for them, but may cause a lot of trouble with the players caught in club V country arguments, more fixture problems etc. One way out of this could be to have a second division six nations with a promotion/ relegation arrangement. This would help ease fixture congestion problems for the top clubs/players whilst helping develop smaller countries rugby image.

[auchtermuchty]

Although the majority of their players ply their trade in Europe, the country's gobal position, I feel, means they should take part in the TriNations.

I disagree. That would be like saying our guys should go to Japan for their local competition. Argentina falls GMT -4 so the logistics of their home crowds watching a game on tv that is 5 or 6 hours different isnt that bad compared to the 14 hours for Aus or 16 hours for NZ.

Remember how bad it was watching the lions tests live at 8am and then make that 4 hours earlier. Thats what the pumas fans would have to endure EVERY year. If they played here they would be watching the 5 pm kick offs at midday-ish, surely a much better option. If they want to play home games in europe then you have the Basque country that is a big rugby base and Barcelona would cope easily. Although I personally think they should play in Buenos Aires.

[auchtermuchty]

One way out of this could be to have a second division six nations with a promotion/ relegation arrangement. This would help ease fixture congestion problems for the top clubs/players whilst helping develop smaller countries rugby image.

Are you suggesting we ask the country who just finished third in the world cup and are ranked above ALL of the six nations sides to join a second division six nations?:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[wolfy]

Are you suggesting we ask the country who just finished third in the world cup and are ranked above ALL of the six nations sides to join a second division six nations?:PDT_Xtremez_42:

In a way I suppose I am, although i hadn't thought of it that way. However if this 2 division idea was to happen who would you drop from the current 6 nations, to let the Argentinians in? it would one hell of an argument, possibly leading to a breakup of the competition.

The reasoning behind my original comments was to suggest a way out of some of the problems that will happen if we went to a 7 nation competition.

[rugby then work]

The inclusion of Argentina to make a seven nations tournament would allow each team to have a week off (as when it was the 5 nations) something that the clubs may well appreciate. I think that if it does happen they'll be based in Spain, not Argentina which is a bit of a shame.

[rugby then work]

IRB chairman Syd Millar has stated in the past that he believes that Argentina should be part of the Tri-nations not the Six Nations.

Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7034605.stm)

[wolfy]

IRB chairman Syd Millar has stated in the past that he believes that Argentina should be part of the Tri-nations not the Six Nations.

Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7034605.stm)

Well I can see his argument, which i feel the clubs would endorse about the 6 nations getting to big.

The tri-nations don't like the idea because the will l loose out finacially if they have to let other team join in. They may talk the talk about helping the smaller nations, but will they. The Aussies and the AB's know that if countries like Fiji, Tonga start getting money for rugby, then some of the players that come to them for money may stay at home. Thus depriving them of potential players.

[auchtermuchty]

In a way I suppose I am, although i hadn't thought of it that way. However if this 2 division idea was to happen who would you drop from the current 6 nations, to let the Argentinians in? it would one hell of an argument, possibly leading to a breakup of the competition.

The reasoning behind my original comments was to suggest a way out of some of the problems that will happen if we went to a 7 nation competition.

Well we always have the option of splitting into two leagues with a championship game. If we took the top 9 european teams and the pumas split into 5 team leagues with a championship game at a venue decided before the tournament it would give each team 4/5 games. the current leagues would look like this.......

League one
Argentina (World ranking 3)
France (6)
Scotland (8)
Italy (11)
Romania (16)

League two
England (4)
Ireland (7)
Wales (10)
Georgia (15)
Russia (17)

At the completion of each championship the bottom team from each league would get relegated to a second tier league from which the top two would be promoted. To avoid the complete loss of long established rivalries i.e. calcutta cup the leagues above would then be rescheduled along world rankings on a set date each year.

If the second tier included the next best six in europe it would look like....

Spain (21)
Portugal (22)
Germany (26)
Moldova (27)
Belguim (32)
Czech republic (33)
If Moldova dont count then its Poland (35)

Alternatively make it seven nations and have a week off but play 6 games. Either way the clubs still wont be happy

[wolfy]

Well we always have the option of splitting into two leagues with a championship game. If we took the top 9 european teams and the pumas split into 5 team leagues with a championship game at a venue decided before the tournament it would give each team 4/5 games. the current leagues would look like this.......

League one
Argentina (World ranking 3)
France (6)
Scotland (8)
Italy (11)
Romania (16)

League two
England (4)
Ireland (7)
Wales (10)
Georgia (15)
Russia (17)

At the completion of each championship the bottom team from each league would get relegated to a second tier league from which the top two would be promoted. To avoid the complete loss of long established rivalries i.e. calcutta cup the leagues above would then be rescheduled along world rankings on a set date each year.

If the second tier included the next best six in europe it would look like....

Spain (21)
Portugal (22)
Germany (26)
Moldova (27)
Belguim (32)
Czech republic (33)
If Moldova dont count then its Poland (35)

Alternatively make it seven nations and have a week off but play 6 games. Either way the clubs still wont be happy

Interesting idea and in the fullness of time I think it could work well. The only problem I foresee is will it keep the smaller countries and fans interested/motivated whilst they wait for years as there countries develop enough to be competitive. You could have a situation where for example Spain get promoted one year and then relegated the next with this pattern continuing for a number of seasons, which may not be good for the development of the game in those countries or the competition.

[docbombhead]

Surely it should be more about what's best for the supporters than the team. A flight (I just checked up on) from London to Buenos Aires starts at 741 quid how many fans from any of the 6 nations teams would be willing to or could afford to pay that much for the flight alone to Argentina before hotels etc plus the time off work it'll be more than just a weekend away to get to the game (by the time you've paid that you might as well save a bit more and go on the next Lions tour). In my opinion Argentina deserve to be in a top flight competition and that competition should be the tri nations.